Tupac Should Never Be Considered The G.O.A.T.

Disclaimer: The Views of this column do not necessarily reflect the ideas or opinions of the entire nappyafro staff. This was the opinion of one member of the staff who had the balls to say what many people thought, but were too scared to ever put in a real post.

I have done a previous article on Tupac Shakur, and I had high praise for the legendary rapper. I do have a lot of respect for the late emcee, yet I must admit, in my opinion, his stance as the greatest of all time is vastly incorrect. I have taken plenty of time trying to polish this article, so it doesn’t come off disrespectful. Has Tupac left his mark on the game? Of course! Has he sold more records than any other Hip-Hop artist? Yes! Was he one of the smarter political aware artist? Yes he was! Are these things enough to consider him the best of all times? Not by a long shot!

Whenever we have the discussion about who the best rappers in the game are, we always talk about the music they produce.
With Pac what I have noticed, is that we rarely speak about his music any longer, but how much his death impacted Hip-Hop. Once we actually take a look at his music, you will begin to recognize some of the flaws that Pac had as an emcee. Yes! A lot of his music was great at garnering an emotion, but his flow is very juvenile compared to some of the greats. Tupac’s greatest lyrical song is often noted as “Hail Mary”, I can name plenty of emcees who have out done that song, more than a few times. (Jay-Z, NaSs, Biggie, Jadakiss, Wayne, & Big Pun). The truth of the matter is that Pac was very much so a mediocre lyricist. His flow never changed, and he was very repetitive with his rhymes.

Some people listen to Pac and feel that he is the best simply because he is the realest cat to do it.
I can’t cosign this statement. When Pac really was popping, it was Thug Life all day. Yet, people forget that this cat went to a school for the performing arts. Jada Pinkett was his best friend. How hood is that? Is that Thug Life? No this guy created a persona and sold it to the masses (The same thing that Rick Ross gets slack for). Is that wrong? No! I think it is just entertainment, but you can’t say 2Pac is one of the best because of how REAL he was.

Pac became greater in death than he ever could have if he was living.
When Tupac was alive he wasn’t considered this great man, he was just another rapper with a troubled back ground. He had been shot, sued, and convicted of rape. The way the media portrayed him when he was alive was just another angry black man. As soon as he dies though, he was viewed as some kind of martyr. People looked at him as though he had died so that Hip-Hop can live. If Pac had died after Biggie, then Biggie would be the martyr, and Pac would be another rapper who died in violence (R.I.P. Big L).

If Pac was still alive, his legacy wouldn’t be a fraction of what it is today.
Let’s just be real, if he was alive today he would have been forced to retire and go into acting. He would have been the West Coast version of LL Cool J. Respected, but no one would buy his records.

I know this article may feel as though I am shitting on a legend, but I’m not. A lot of people feel the same way I do, but don’t want to have people feel like they are disrespecting Tupac. I know he has meant a lot to our culture, but why should we turn a blind eye to the truth of the matter? I also think Lil’ B can be important to Hip-Hop, but if he dies I won’t call him the best. Pac was a great personality for Hip-Hop, but not the best emcee.

Sidenote #1: I know P-Body is about to write a book in response to this.
Sidenote #2: With all the hate that King Jerm got from his Eminem post, I will be watching my back once this is up.

Hailing from the West side of the country, Las Vegas to be exact, DuB was a fan of the website before he became a writer over here at the Fro'. He said, "I came for the Certified Bangers, but stayed for the Hip Hop". Once he saw what the site had to offer, he contacted us and asked if there was a position opening. Although we explained that we couldn't pay him initially he was still down for the cause. He officially joined the team in October of 2010, and has been putting in work ever since. Along with Arkitek, DuB has helped Fro' Nation hear the voice of the West Coast.
  • saule wright

    WOW *grabs popcorn*

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    *puts on bulletproof vest

  • @Hesmrknowitall

    Whenever we have the discussion about who the best rappers in the game are, we always talk about the music they produce.

    - This is a general statement yet you only focused on lyrics in your explanation. Was Tupac the best lyricist? Hell no but he had a point that a lot of people could relate to and he made his point quite well (Brenda’s got a Baby, When My Homies Call, Keep Your Head Up, Papa’s Song, Pour Out A Little Liquor, So Many Tears, Dear Mama, I Ain’t Mad At Cha) You can find MANY an artists today who are better lyrically than Pac BUT they don’t say shit (see Jay-Z……..I SAID IT). This is the reason I can’t get any of my friends to fuck with Slaughterhouse like I do. Was Pac the worst lyrically HELL NO!!! His lines are bitten today by Shark ninjas (copyright Wu-Tang) just as often as Big’s.

    Some people listen to Pac and feel that he is the best simply because he is the realest cat to do it.

    -That school of the performing arts you speak of is in Baltimore, MD (you’ve seen the Wire) Jada Pinkett wasn’t born married to Will Smith on the set of A Different World both she and Pac started out poor. The son of a Black Panther who later had a drug addiction…..constantly moving all over the country to some of the worst neighborhoods (Bronx, Baltimore, Oakland). Not to mention it wasn’t that easy for a black male in the 70s and 80s. RICK ROSS!!!!!???? You really said that shit?? Slap yourself the resume’ doesn’t even compare.

    Pac became greater in death than he ever could have if he was living.
    - Did Pac become greater in death? Hell yeah….so did Big (only 2 albums), Elvis, Heath Ledger and any other dead mofo. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and people don’t speak too ill of the dead so that wipes out a lot truth. However don’t just get your info from the media…the same media who was very biased not just against Pac but against rap and rappers…..I think you forgot the environment and state of the world during Pac’s life or maybe you not old enough to understand. Besides all the negative stuff you named Pac was also a community activist named me your favorite rapper who did more than just shot out his hood (yet lives in the Hamptons)

    If Pac was still alive, his legacy wouldn’t be a fraction of what it is today.
    - If Pac was alive in this rapper friendly society his legacy would probably be bigger!!! Acting? Marketing (rappers sell sodas now), books plus rapping?!?!

    • magnificient

      he got a point

    • P-Body

      Amen! Me and you on the same page

    • P

      Exactly tell him man

  • @Hesmrknowitall

    If Pac was still alive, his legacy wouldn’t be a fraction of what it is today. (cont’d)
    - If Pac was alive today several of your favorite rappers would work at McDonald’s and Jay-Z would have 1 less rapper to bite.

    • ß۞Ь¥ ҊɸЊŁѮ§Ե

      jay z would be workin at mcdonalds.

  • MrLeet

    Don’t know if this says much, but I think Pac has one more song than biggie, jay-z, nas, big pun, and jadakiss in the library of congress.

    America cosigned his shit.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      The world also cosigned Mc Hammer…. that shit doesn’t mean anything.

      You cats are funny. Everytime I put up a post y’all dissagree with, your responses just turn into fuck this guy or that guy. You never have any real responses that make me even begin to think maybe I was wrong.

      STEP YOUR GAME UP

      • 2pac

        People actually believed in Pac, nobody believes in Jay-Z or Lil Wayne and def not Rick Ross, Pac’s ability as an MC was to create rhymes that spoke to you and weren’t catchy punchlines and flashy metaphors. He had substance and put it into a form that people felt. His energy and presence is unmatched. He has a mass cult following not a mass of fans. Pac had hit singles that werent “radio” or commercial club songs. They were songs like Dear Mama. If you do not understand why Pac is one of the greatest rappers ever you do not understand hip-hop and probably think And 1 players now are better than someone like Larry Bird. I havent read anything except this yet but I do notice an article about how Lil Wayne could be the greatest? but not Pac…ummmmmm. I dont know why I would read another article by you other than to try and understand how one could be so ignorant to write this.

  • @Hesmrknowitall

    White America (mainstream) cosigned Hammer…..Hip-Hop pretty much shitted on him. Funny they shitted on him for doing ALL the shit EVERY rapper does now off GP (commercials, cartoons, corny ass songs).

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      Yeah Hip Hop accepted 2Pac, but mainstream America is who gave him th GOAT title, and no one had thee balls to say no that’s not right, out of fear of disrespecting the dead.

  • @Hesmrknowitall

    Mainstream America didn’t give him that title…..you named all the slights the media promoted in your post….smh!!! “He had been shot, sued, and convicted of rape.” <—–Remember this? Tupac was the most versatile rapper: substance, passion, profound (if not complex) lyrics and quality music. I've heard more people say Big was the GOAT but he had no substance (unless you still rock Coogi). Like who you like but the fact that we're having this convo shows Pac's impact…..and there isn't another rapper who can do it. Who do you say is the GOAT?

    • http://nappyafro.com B-Easy

      “I’ve heard more people say Big was the GOAT but he had no substance (unless you still rock Coogi)”

      Man, why you have to diss Biggie…

      • Danx84x

        biggie is a scum bag im glad he died, im a white boy from ny and i can make raps like that in half the time it took him, he just had a good flow, other than that, im glad he was killed. his mother should of aborted his bitchass

        • This Guy

          Damn wtf? Somebody give this guy a tampon for godsake. Going off like he know everybody here…Biggie represented MORE than rap and 2Pac was just a man as well. White boy from NY, have a little self-esteem…

          • http://twitter.com/SauleWright Saule Wright

             I’m thinkin this is one of our favorite stalkers with a new name.

          • P-Body

            Who ever that is have some sort of mental disorder and need to address their problem to a therapist.

        • Joseph Wright

          Biggie would crush you in an acapella freestyle battle.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      So the day that Pac died the media didn’t do a 180? Ok I can tell you are a Pac fan, so I won’t really continue this debate with you. Truth of the matter is that Pac was one of the least versatile rappers that is ever brought up when we speak about the best. Yes he was smart and evoked emotion, but I would take Nas and Common anyday over Pac. They had/have similiar subject matter and their rhymes are better. Their flows are more versatile, and they aren’t repetitve like Pac. I could name a list of 15 rappers who have better catalouges better than 2pac without even thinking hard. He never has made a great album. Even All Eyez On Me had Ten songs that shouldn’t have been on the album.

      Pac is overly celebrated and is overrated, because MTV and Vh1 say he is the best. How mainstream is that?

      • Danx84x

        “niggaz talk alot shit, but thats after im gone, cuz they fear me in the physical form. I’m Troublesome!!!” 

      • sergio Dominguez

        Nas is great but he has so many time to work in his rap tupac just have 25 to Did all he Did. and he is a legend can you really compare pac with somebody?

      • RainingOposites

        Me Against The World wasnt a great album? If you think hes not the g.o.a.t. I dont give a fuck there is no g.o.a.t. to me but regardless you lost all credibility in my eyes by saying Pac has never made a great album and now your coming off as a flat out hater.

      • Ru

        Your a fucking idiot MTV an vh1 lmao fucking clown pac was for the people an brought everyday struggles into his music like no other rapper ever could or ever will dumb bitch…

  • Clay Davis

    @ Dub
    *COSIGN
    Damn TOO tired of the Tupac shit he is the most overrated rapper ever

    • Danx84x

      go fuck urself u faggot ill lay u out in 4 hits pussy

  • Anonymous

    Dumbest shit I’ve ever read. I can respect anyone’s opinion but bring something new to the table, don’t only attack what’s already out there.

    The truth is…

    1. Pac never had the best flow/wordplay.
    2. While deep, Pac’s not the only rapper with introspective lyrics.
    3. Pac’s death, ultimately worked out in his benefit (still sucks tho).

    But you can’t name anybody else who had the impact Pac had in the genre. Nobody questioned Pac whether he was talking gang shit or himself. #1 thing you want as an artist is for people to admire you. Pac always had this, even while engaged in beef with hip hop’s best.

    When you think of GOAT, you gotta think more than just whether you liked his music or not. Everybody has there personal taste, but if half the hip hop community rides with him then you need to drop your bias. People didn’t pick this dude out the fucking blue; they loved his music for different reasons.

    If Pac was alive today he wouldn’t nearly be regardged as high as he is now def true. Pac’s death is signigicant cause he was killed over gang shit, the same shit he talked about. His murder caused ppl to kill B.I.G. in retaliation. Name someone else capable of that…

    • P-Body

      I agree with everything you said except for the murder thing. Both of them didn’t die over no damn gang shit mane! What gang can organize a crime the way both of their murders was? That was on some police FBI shit right there, some trained professionals took them out. How both of them get caught at a damn red light and no witnesses. Kadafi was the only witness but he got murdered in New Jersey couple of months later. Pac & Big was killed on the West Coast. If Pac was killed on the East Coast and Big was killed on the West then yea I’ll say *They died on East/West beef* but nah they died on the West. I get tired of people saying they died on East Vs West stuff. Pac was in some deep stuff beyond rap. When he shot those two cops in Atlanta, you don’t think other cops wasn’t mad about that shit still… Especially since he got off the charges.

      • Evan

        I mean I def feel what you saying but at the end of the day it’s just rumor, not fact. Whether is was the gov or somebody who just ain’t like the dude, Pac’s death was the driving force behind the killing of another legend, BIG. Thats mainly what I was tryin to prove

        • P-Body

          Yeah it definitely was the driving force to Biggie murder. Biggie is my dude and all but he wasn’t smart to go out to the West Coast during that time. He should have waited until that shit died down before he even take a flight out to Cali. I don’t know what he was thinking. I guess Big was feeling himself too much at that time or something. RIP to both of them cats, they didn’t deserve that at all. Biggie had to know people was still pissed and sad about Pac death. Honestly man the way their death’s was setup, that was organized. It wasn’t no regular street dude that did that

      • Danx84x

        ur a dumass, only 63% of u.s murders are solved, and im a pretty smart motherfukker which meens i could kill your ass right now and no1 will catch me..and imagine in 96′!! ooh man i coulda killed bigger faster and easier that fat fuck

      • nellz

        Illuminati

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      That was some “Prolific Ignorance”

      You pretty much just said Pac wasn’t a great rapper, but he was still the G.O.A.T. dumbest argument yet.

      • Anonymous

        Pac didn’t have the best flow.
        Pac didn’t have the best wordplay.
        Yet, people loved Pac for his subject matter, attitutde, and over since of being genuine. So much that, that even people with with a better flow (Eminem) or people with better wordplay (Jay-Z; at least old Jay anyway) at most put themselves at his level, but never exceeding it. That’s something you have to admire and that’s what made him goat.

        Rereading my comment I aint mean to attack you, but you can’t let your personal views of an artist overshadow their contribution to the genre. It’s 2011, and Pac is still considered goat. There’s a reason for that.

        • http://nappyafro.com DuB

          Look at what happened to Funk Flex when he gave his opinion on Pac. Imagine if an Emcee said that. His career would be over.
          I’m not saying 2pac didn’t leave his stamp on the game, but he isn’t the best at all.

          If you don’t believe check out other publications, I’m not the only one with this opinion.

          • P-Body

            Trust me I know a good amount of people with the same opinion as you Dub but there are way more people who loved him overall. Funk Master Flex is a big ass bitch, he wait until the man is dead to speak about the shit.. When 2Pac said stuff about Flex when he was alive Flex should have addressed the situation then but he waited 15 damn years to say something. Flex don’t get respect in my book. You shouldn’t even brought up Flex. I use to respect Flex and I use to buy his Mixtape CD’s along time ago. Fuck Flex.

          • Evan

            Your def not the only one, but believe there’s a reason your the minority. If it ain’t Pac, who deserves the title?

            And Flex??? Nigga are you serious???? Talk to me when somebody relevant says that shit, please.

          • boda

            the problem with gay flex is that 15 years later he comes out of nowhere to start shit that was buried.its ok to say I dont like pac as an mc I dont like is music feel free to say that but flexx said fuck that nigga because he brought negativ energy to hip hop with all the beefs.FLEXX of all people he made a career of all the beefs in hiphop droping bombs and shit.fuck that.KRS 1 once told me pac NEVAR said he was the goat why would you put that burden in his back?????
            lil b??? c mon son really?????till this day no one can put his emotions on a song like pac

    • Danx84x

      man oh man can you just listen to how dumb the shit you say is? 2PAC WOULD BE RICHER THAN DONALD TRUMP IF HE WAS ALIVE. what the fuck makes you think otherwise? he made like 4 movies, 7 or 8 albums..in just 5 years…and your tryna tell us he wouldnt be as reguarded, i feel what ur sayin, but dam b stop talkin shit when u dont know the man

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    Thank you for taking time out of your day to read my post, and thank you for taking even more time to respond to it.

    In the Hip Hop community being admired by other artist is bigger than being admired by the media. Artisically no one wants to be Pac. Everyone wants to blconvey emotion like him. People rather have lyrical content like the best emcees, which Pac wasn’t.

  • P-Body

    Smh man

    Dub what kind of post is this? I respect your mind though for being honest and true to yourself, I can’t take that away.

    But this is ridiculous. What does performing art school got to do with a person personality or thug lifestyle? You forget Pac was poor as fuck, his talents got him into that school and when he moved to Oakland he was homeless as a teenager & stay in shelters then his mom was a crack addict… To say that man isn’t real is ridiculous. Jay-Z never went through no shit like that and I watched his biography on VH1 a long time ago trust me. That’s just like saying since I listen to No Doubt music *which I do sometimes* that mean I’m soft and scared to fight… That would be a ridiculous lie.

    The word Thug Life wasn’t meant for beating people over the head and being street punk robbing people. It had a meaning behind it, it show how much people really read about this subject especially when they want to debate about Pac saying Thug Life. I really have to laugh when you or anybody keep throwing Thug Life up in conversations. His step father Mutulu Shakur who is still locked up was explaining more in depth on it in the XXL magazine recently. Thug Life wasn’t on some bullshit. Basically what he is saying what you put in is what you get out, if you treat me bad with hate as a young kid and then when I grow up turn out to be a menace then they can’t get mad at me for being mad at the world and fucking stuff up.

    Pac flow changed much from 2Pacalypse Now…. All Eyez On Me his flow was different from Me Against The World and definitely Makaveli. On Makaveli he rapped with way more emotion and sounded more angry.

    I agree with everybody else. Mainstream didn’t give that man no damn title like that, the streets gave it to him. Like Big Syke said “I been accepted to every ghetto in America because I rolled with Pac and he is well respected”.

    I read a lot of things from people who actually met Pac and how down to earth dude was. One of my friends back in the day older sister met him, she actually have a picture she took with 2Pac. She said dude was one of the coolest dudes and you wouldn’t even think he was a celebrity.

    In 96 Pac was the biggest rap artist at that time man, don’t forget that. It sure wasn’t Jay-Z, Snoop, Nas, Wu Tang, Biggie, Redman, Geto Boys, UGK, Mobb Deep, A Tribe Called Quest, 8Ball & MJG, Master P, and so forth at that time period. Some of those folks in that list was big artist but Pac was on another level. People I knew back then couldn’t wait until All Eyez On Me Dropped. I remember when my cousin had that shit on cassette tape he use to bump the hell out of that tape in the car when I use to ride with him places. Pac was that dude no matter how much you try to deny it.

    Pac wasn’t the best lyricist I’ll say that but he caught people attention and he say things that was important. He didn’t need to be complex at all. If it was like that then GZA, Talib Kweli or somebody else would be the GOAT. Pac put so much emotion into his songs.

    Somethings Pac rapped about I can relate to it. A lot of us can relate to it by the way.

    I always been a Pac fan by the way. I still have posters from the 90′s of 2Pac at my mom house somewhere, I’ll look for it whenever I visit her.

    Honestly a lot of people feel like Pac is the GOAT. I feel like Pac is the GOAT not because of what hip hop says but because how I actually feel. I bought his CD’s, tapes, VHS, Shirt, and DVDs. I even have some Makaveli shoes too which I wear sometimes with my 2Pac shirt. I’ll wear them maybe 2 times a year to keep it fresh.

    Death always make people better of course. Even Jadakiss said dead rappers get better promotion which is true. Elvis is praised more since he is dead also… So what you saying isn’t really making no valid point. A lot of times we take things for granted and we don’t realize things until it is gone.

    The way Pac made a person felt when listening to his music is on another level. His music was raw, upbeat sometimes, and he had a message a lot of times. Even on “How Do U Want It” he was spitting some political shit on the 2nd verse when he dissed Bob Dole and D Tucker. Pac would have made an awesome politician I think.

    Also if you don’t remember or never seen the interview Pac said he didn’t want to rap forever anyway. He said by the year 2000 if he lived he would focus on acting and directing. Maybe drop an album once every 5 years like Paul McCartney did…. Before making post like this you have to really do research man. I highly doubt Pac would still be rapping now if he had lived.

    With him being dead just fucked a lot of shit up. Death Row fell off the radar big time. A lot of the artist like LBC Crew and OFTB album got shelved until recently when Death Row/Wide Awake released them. The West Coast had a voice but since Pac been gone it has been shaky. Even on the East Coast Biggie death really affected shit out there too. It ain’t been the same. Even with Jay-Z and Nas still holding it down it is not the same. It is missing that rawness… I don’t like all that soft shit in my hip hop music, some of it is alright but I like raw shit. You don’t have to be rapping about killing people, naw but talk about some stuff that a lot of regular folks can relate to and deal with.

    Back to this art school thing. You think because a person went to an art school that make a dude soft? People really have a lot of growing up to do. Art school definitely don’t dictate what a person know outside of the Art World, believe me! I went to an Art School too to be honest but that’s was when I was 20 years old and that don’t make soft at all. Pac enjoyed the acting so he can get away from thinking about being broke, his friend was shot dead as a young teen also which pushed him harder… He also had a record deal when he was 13 but Afeni declined it.

    You should be proud that he tried to do better for himself. I hate to see anybody still struggling and being homeless especially if they was real young like he was.

    When he rapped on “Same Song” people knew it was something special about Pac, but they couldn’t put their finger on it. Also what other rapper had a main starring role in a movie while releasing his first Debut album when people didn’t really know who he was. Juice was critically acclaimed. One of my favorite movies.

    He was a beast in the studio. He know how valuable time was and he would go into the studio as if he was about to die the next day. That’s how everybody should be with something. Pac will always get my respect for life no matter what people say about the man. Most rappers that met 2Pac would tell you dude had major balls when it come to stuff he believed in. That’s how people should be instead of these bullshit rappers we have now that do what the label tell them to do 100% of time and never speak what is in their heart.

    Don’t even compare Rick Ross to Pac. Rick Ross lied the whole damn time. Pac never lied about going to a performing art school…. He admit to doing that. Him dancing with Digital Underground was a blessing for him to be honest and put him in a position to get signed. It was a way for him to eat especially since he was homeless. If you was homeless you would do what you can to get some money in your pockets too. Everybody have to pay dues man. We all paying dues in some way shape and form.

    I can go all day with this subject.

    • http://nappyafro.com B-Easy

      Longest. Comment. Ever.

      • P-Body

        Hey I just speak on what I believe. I don’t mine going back and forth about it.

    • saule wright

      man….damn

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      I’m not going to front like I read all that. Ill just say, Ok!

    • http://nappyafro.com H2O

      This nigga just ODed.

    • john doe

      man fuckin rights id rather read that than this bullshit article, OP your a faggot haha.

      • HUNTERCNK80Q3

        its called 2pac research idiota.

  • http://nappyafro.com King Jerm

    I laid the blueprint for this kind of shit.

    Well done DuB.

    • P-Body

      No you didn’t

      • http://nappyafro.com DuB

        Yeah he did.

  • Mike L

    I can’t say that Pac was my favorite rapper, but I can definately understand why people would consider him the G.O.A.T. Everything about Pac from his music, his lifestyle, his attitude, and even his death was an embodiment of Hip Hop. While not the best rapper, his music, especially after his death, became possibly the best representation for the genre and the people that it spoke for. Which is why so many consider him the greatest.

  • Rickjamesbitch

    I haven’t heard enough of Pac’s music to really judge him on being the best but from what I’ve heard he was good at making inspirational music, lyrically he was just ok. But I do know that dead rappers are put on a pedestal, at least Big and Pac are. In school I said that I think Nas is better than Big or Pac and everybody looked at me sideways.
    Just cuz somebody’s dead doesn’t mean they’re flawless..

  • P-Body

    This is what I don’t get ya’ll try to attack a dead man. Why disrespect the man when he can’t defend himself… Not once have Pac said he was the best rapper of all time, he never tried to be but people felt him so much and he captivated the world so much that ya’ll can’t accept it.

    • Clay Davis

      If we try to attack a dead man then you worship the dead

      • P-Body

        Only thing I worship is God, not no human you got me twisted big time bro. But I’m just saying for people to bash Pac is just wrong. Dude never tried to be the best rapper. He wanted to do his thing and spread out the message, his main thing is to get on stage and do movies. He said he always felt free when he act on stage. We can’t help it if so many of us felt Pac music. When he rap about his parent being on crack I can totally relate to that. Even when I found out certain old friends of mine doing crack that shit hurts. I’m just a Pac fan until I’m dead and gone. People can say what they want about Pac but dude had mad heart and stood up for what he believe in until the day he died. That’s how people should be instead of being a coward and backing down.

        • Clay Davis

          How you exaggerate and say we attack the dead you worship it. What I’m really saying is anytime someone says anything negative about Pac is the say way you feel about Jay it is all opinion if it really offends you write a post about how Pac is the G.O.A.T.

  • P

    WOW this is possibly the dumbest shit ive ever read. This is blasphomy. You cats act like Pac couldnt rap at all, this is ridiculous. So you tellin me rappers like Jay and Rakim are better than Pac? People consider them G.O.A.T’s right?

  • P

    I mean I guess if Pac would have spent his time thinking of more pointless dumbass metaphors and punchlines then yall woulda thought he was a better rapper and put him in here. What rapper has a catalog like Pac? And im not even talking more songs, im talking quality songs/ great songs. I guess has millions of fans for no reason.

    • P-Body

      Preach on P. I co-sign 100% and I got your back on this one.

      People tend to forget the time frame and how life was during Pac lifetime as a young man. A lot of young kids was getting murked over Jordan shoes (I remember that shit) and all kind of shit. Gang Violence was higher back then…. A lot of cities was much more rougher then and way more murders. He spoke about that shit. Pac seen a lot of young kids die young. He rapped about that shit a lot on his songs.

      He always spoke for the youth. Back then since I was part of the youth crowd then I felt him a lot. The song “Young Niggaz” he was speaking on some real shit and it was dedicated to this kid who was murdered in Chicago. That same kid also murdered a girl which in return got him murked at age 11 in 94 *he wasn’t that much older than me smh*. Read about Yami…. He also voiced out his pain and anger about the murder of Natasha who was murdered in 91 at age 15 at a Korean store in California. When has Jay-Z or Biggie ever spoke about the youth on that level to try to touch kids and young people like that? Maybe Nas but still the way him and other rappers do it don’t reach me the way Pac did.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      You’re one of the same cats who scream 4ales don’t matter, but because. That is the only valid argument you have you scream that Pac sold millions. C’Mon Son!!!

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    Jay and Rakim? Yes! And I think Rakim is overrated. I’m not saying Pac couldn’t Rap. I’m saying he was never good enough to be placed on the pedistool he has been placed on. He is in my top 50, if that makes you feel better.

    • P-Body

      Yeah I think Rakim is overrated too but I do like his music and he did change the game. If it wasn’t for him the rap game wouldn’t have lyrical content. We will still probably have people rapping like Sugar Hill Gang but then again who to say, I believe it would have changed eventually with him or not. Rakim and Jay maybe lyrically better than Pac but the everlasting affect Pac has they can’t touch it. Pac unreleased songs sound fresh especially when they use his vocals on updated beats, it show you what kind of level dude was on.

  • http://www.makaveli-board.net Elion

    yall some cumb niggas

  • Mr. Jones

    Pac’s flow was worse because he cared more about making music with some real feeling, and that’s why hes one of the greats.

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    If you’re a singer who can evoke emotion but can’t sing, you aren’t the best singer.

    For y’all trying to claim that Pac wasn’t lyrical, but he can evoke emotion so he is still the best need to come up with a better argument. This is a Hip Hop site not a basic music website, we have the responsibility to be real. And really your arguments suck.

    • P-Body

      Man put it like this Talib Kweli is a lyrical beast and one of the most ill lyricist out there but is he a GOAT? Hell naw. Pac had the total package.

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    If you aren’t lyrical, how do you have the total package?

    You guys were in love with the man, not the emcee.

    Is Pac important to our culture? Yeah. Still not the greatest by any strecth of the imagination.

    • P-Body

      Jay-Z never spit lyrics as lyrical as Talib nor Common but ya’ll crown this man king. C’mon fam.

      • http://nappyafro.com DuB

        This isn’t a Jay-Z post, nor does our argument have anything to do with him.

        I just said that whenever a point is made that you guys don’t agree with, you try to deflect, because your argument has litlle to no validity.

        It has already been agreed that Pac didn’t have a flow, nor the lyricism to compete with other greats. How is he the Goat then? His stories? I can name stories better than his easy. His concepts? No this niggas tightest concept was Me and My Girlfriend, which he got from Nas. His diss records? Naw everyone knows towards the end of his career he did what 50 does now, diss everyone for no real reason (nas, and jay-z).

        What was it? It is the way the media portrays him. Fam he wasn’t an Emcee who can compete with the arguable GOATS

        • P-Body

          The stuff you said isn’t valid either, what you’re saying is an opinion. You think everything you say is on point or is the truth? You have some truth to it. I put Jay-Z in this convo because ya’ll hold his man up so high and say he is the best when he isn’t, he is definitely one of the best though I’ll give him that. He dissed Nas because he felt like Nas dissed him on It Was Written and Nas dissed him on a freestyle on hot 97 also. You need to get your facts dog. He only dissed Jay-Z because he affiliated with Notorious BIG. When you are at war with somebody that’s how it is, kinda like how Iraq hate us even though a lot of us don’t have nothing to do with the beef but since we are Americans they will kill us if they had a chance. Put it like this it is hard to say who is the actual GOAT in hip hop because some songs I hear from Nas or somebody I’ll be like “Damn this dude right here got it on lock”. I use to think Scarface was the best when I was really young. I went through my phases but 2Pac definitely stuck with me for the longest time more than any other rapper. Pac was much more bigger than rap man, his work overtime showed his potential. You really think Pac was just only focused on rap, like I said if you read my other comment dude wasn’t trying to be the best rapper but people started to say he is because they felt dude, and they love the man work. I love the man work and I respect his work to the fullest. Hardest working man in the music business besides Michael Jackson, Prince, and James Brown.

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            This is fact, not opinion. Pac wasn’t complex, his scheme of rhymes were simple. That is valid?

            I’m done arguing, you obviously don’t see the point of the column nor my responses. Truthfully a lot of what you said proves my point for me.

          • Reason

            Does it have to be complex to be great? I mean Pac was trying to reach the people and how could he do that if they couldn’t understand him fully? Pac was a very creative & intelligent individual so he couldve been capable of more complex rhymes but we’ll never know to what extent he died before we could witness his full talents but I say that no one can be definitively called the G.O.A.T. Because no one is the greatest at every aspect of hip-hop because every artist varies & has a different aim & I would say Pac was one of the most successful at reaching the people and motivating them he wasn’t trying to be the greatest just express himself in wAys that he enjoyed

          • Joseph Wright

            Ha-ha, hip hop amateur thinking his opinion is a fact.

          • P-Body

            What point am I’m proving to you then? You’re not making no sense by saying I’m proving your point. I can argue all day about this one believe me. Of course Pac wasn’t a complex lyricist, he didn’t need to be. He did what worked for him and reach the people. People say stuff about Pac not changing up his flow on Bone “Thug Luv” song but Game change up his flow to rap like other artist when he feature them and it is a problem, hip hop fans are so fickled and confused on what they want in a emcee. Keith Murray is probably one of the most complex emcee’s but is he a GOAT? Hell naw he isn’t. Can Murray flow? Yes he can. It take more than just being able to have complex lyrics. Complex Lyrics don’t make nobody the greatest. Like I said earlier Pac had the total package with his. He can make you feel him, he can make you dance, he can make you mad & wanna fight, he can make you appreciate your mom more, and etc. That’s what being the best to me is if you can not only rap but you got to have substance in your rhymes and be able to communicate with the people. So Pac reached out to me more than anybody else did in hip hop so he is the GOAT to me no matter if anybody like it or not. They also have him on the list as one of the greatest artist of all time. In 2011 dude is still getting talked about now and new songs still leaking out that sound much fresher than some of these guys out right now in the game.

          • Erik Udd

            This right here finished the thread.

        • Mr. Jones

           lyrical doesn’t necessarily mean just rhyme schemes. So what the guy isn’t a complicated ass rapper? The best rappers are ones that take the complicated situations of life and make them to where the songs are meaningful, and that’s exactly what Pac did.

    • bg

      Firstly, so many things define an MC, not just lyricism; Though pac’s wordplay wasn’t the best in the industry, very few rappers could come close to his poetic skills. Secondly, If you think hail Mary was 2pac’s most lyrical song, you either don’t know what lyricism is, or you haven’t even studied a fraction of his catalogue. from ” got my mind made up” to ” if I die 2nite” to “check out time”…. and many more..

  • whowho

    This is the dumbest shit I have ever read in my life.

  • Eagle Eye

    Every one us intitled to their opinion. I guest technicaly Pac was not a top lyricis — I think a lot of material tht Pac would have never release is medicore compared to his best work due to his death – not to fault of his own.

    All Eyes On Me to pac credit was not his best work – he even admited that (and yet still considered his best works by many). But if you listen to 2Pacalypse Now, Me Agaisnt the World and Makaveli albums you can hear great lyrics – imo these are Classic albums (not flawless-but classic still).

    With that said Pac was a great Emcee – in terms of passion and sincerity. Cannibus, Keith Murray, Gza & Chino Xl are great Emcee — but none of these Emcee have the “it factor”. Pac,Nas,Rakim,Wayne,Em & Jay Z are great Emcee bc of the gift to relate to the people using poetry over beats.

    When we say top Emcee (MC) of all time – don’t we mean Mastrer of Ceremony(key word ‘MASTER’) – Put Pac on a track with your favorite Emcee and like the best rappers in the Game — he will out rap your top Emcee and take the track — that’s what I consider a great Emcee.

    A like Biggie both were only 25 yrs old when they died. No telling where they would be lyricaly had they lived to their primes (Big L & Pun included).

    • P-Body

      Biggie didn’t make it to 25 yet when he died, almost though…

      I totally agree. I know this is different but like with Nas and AZ. I think AZ was just as good as Nas but Nas had more of a IT factor that made him more successful.

      Pac was just the total package for me and I’ll live it as that. Nobody in the rap game put it down like he did. You’re right about 2Pacalypse Now album, it was very good and underrated. I thought he was spitting lyrically on that album also. Me Against The World was definitely a step up and Of Course Makaveli.

      I hate how they remixed his shit and butchered his music after his death. Only certain songs stayed in their original form. I think some of the songs had problems with the sample clearance though.

      • Eagle Eye

        I agree with you 100 percent – I’m just reading this after posting my prior comment. I hate the remix stuff – Same with Biggie 2!

        • P-Body

          Yeah they fucked over Biggie music too… Man I was so pissed when I heard them joints. I remember at first when they would say “We got a new Pac album” or Biggie I would get excited but when I bought the shit I was mad as fuck. I remember in 01 when Until The End Of The Time Dropped. I bought it the day it came out since I had a little money working at this dumb ass fast food job, and I was pissed. I knew them songs wasn’t on the original beat. They also remixed Eazy-E stuff too, I bought that Legacy CD and damn them songs sucked on it. I like Eazy too but shit…. I’m glad they didn’t do my boy Soulja Slim like that. They fucked over Pimp C also

  • Eagle Eye

    @ Dub — I feel your point — You have valids points that you make in this article. But I think P – Body is not arguing your point – I think his issue is your premise– ‘Tupac Should Never Be Considered The G.O.A.T”. – With every valid point made in your article – I respectfully would disagree that Pac should be CONSIDERED 1 of the GOAT – I think thts were i would agree to disagree.

    I use to be a huge Pac fan – since his death I refuse to listen to postumous garbage releases- I think this has de-valued his talents & makes it hard for me to have these type of debates. For me i stick Pre-death material he attended to release.

    I do think as Pac fan he is put on higher plane like Jay Z for other reason thn rapping (as we all do 4 r favorite rapper). But I do try 2 draw the line there – I just give thm due as artist – all that other stuff ie acting and or business mind does not make them a better artist thn Nas, Talib, Mos Def, Jeezy or Andre 3K – so I can understand people fustration with Pac and Jay-Z — But even still they are great artist, lyricis, rapper or etc…lol

  • Scoop Newsworthy

    I have said the same thing for years. Pac is still a legend though and no worse than top 5 dead or alive. Pac’s impact is second to none but he is not the GOAT imo. One can argue he is the greatest because there are many reasons why Pac is legendary. But I would put B.I.G., Jay, and Nas ahead of Pac. Pac has two classic albums and a huge catalogue of great songs.

    • Erik Udd

      Thats maybe all that is required to be called the GOAT. No one of the MC’s u put up have a better catalogue for that short time.

  • saule wright

    Welcome to the new most popular post in nappyafro history. This post will NEVER die

  • P-Body

    Well Pac is the GOAT to me and I don’t see nobody replacing him. It has been times where I would throw Nas above him and even Redman but I’ll snap out of it. It’s hard for me to make a top 10 emcee’s of all time list because it changes like crazy. I know one thing Pac, Big, Jay, Nas, and Bun B is on the list. Yes I said Bun B… Dude is ill and was always ill. The list do changes, depending on the year I was asked who is in my top 10. Every year my list changes.

  • http://nappyafro.com H2O

    I actually completely agree with everything said in this post.

    You know what’s REALLY funny? The same arguments people are making for Pac are the same ones people who are fans of Lil B make.

    • http://nappyafro.com B-Easy

      And THAT may be the best comment of the post.

    • Eagle Eye

      U tripping!

    • P-Body

      Um I’m not a fan of Lil B mane…. No sir you got me confused my dude. You can’t compare Lil B & 2Pac… Totally different artist. One of them is very talented and the other one is just making noise *cough Lil B*

    • saule wright

      DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN

    • http://nappyafro.com H2O

      My bad…I meant to the say the same arguments make in favor of Pac are the same ones fans of Lil B make in favor of him.

      • Reason

        I catch your drift but its not limited to Lil’ B you could fill in any rappers name why not Gucci, Tip, Wayne etc.

  • saule wright

    Some of these comments are longer than the article….and make less sense. I think homie may be right on point here….

  • P

    Man like 4real I dont have the energy for this LOL

    • P-Body

      I feel you my dude. I’m actually done saying my peace and where I stand. School start back this week so back to grind time now and recover from this damn injury I received in Muay Thai.

      • P

        This shit is so ridiculous I dont even know how to argue it smh

        • P-Body

          True… It’s not really much more we can argue about. I do have more but it is not worth to keep debating about. I just know at the end of the day I feel the way I feel about Pac music and it’s more Pac fans than Jay-Z fans.

    • http://nappyafro.com B-Easy

      So DuB won?

      Also, P & P-Body, y’all niggas need to get some damn Gravatars (http://en.gravatar.com/). Seeing y’all go back and forth with everybody is confusing as hell.

      • P-Body

        Naw he didn’t win, I need to get my mind into the school thing since it is back in motion this week smh. Like I said I spoke my peace on what I felt and there is nothing that can change that. Pac obviously won since his impact is still recognized in the game, people still consider him the best, and he cover magazines still in 2011… Yeah I know I need a gravatar bad man, this plain shit just ain’t cool.

      • http://nappyafro.com DuB

        “So DuB won?”

        Was there ever any doubt?

        • Erik Udd

          Seems like you are quite alone with that opinion

      • Reason

        Nah no one did if he had the best argument in your opinion then that’s your decision but honestly I take a different side of the argument but I do appreciate the varying opinion of dub seeing someone who has a different opinion than you allows you to see the whole picture clearer

  • http://nappyafro.com King Jerm

    y’all niggas cray (c)

  • kidd

    Dub, I’ve got to disagree:

    1. The first issue I see wrong with your argument Dub is you still haven’t defined what the Greatest of All Time consists of.. is it lyricism, street cred, number of units sold?

    2. “some people listen to Pac and feel that he is the best simply because he is the realest cat to do it”
    - You disagree with this because he created a persona? If you ask anyone in the music industry its all about the image. THUGLIFE was a statement and an acronym for The Hate U Give Little Infants F*cks Everyone.
    - And to the point about him attending the school for the performing arts.. you do know, unlike rick ross, Pac never once denied his past, right? It doesn’t make sense that because he attended a school for the performing arts you’re questioning his authenticity. How do you fault someone for pursuing their passion? That’s not “real” enough for you? Anyone trying to get out of the cycle of the streets and true to themselves are the realest people I know.

    3. “Pac became greater in death than he ever could have if he was living” and “if Pac was still alive, his legacy wouldn’t be a fraction of what it is today.”
    - You do know he was only 25 when he died right? Take a look at some of the industries greatest: Quincy Jones, if he died at age 25, he would be studying in Paris and wouldn’t have 79 Grammy nominations. If Jay-z -arguably top 5 GOAT’s- died at age 25, he wouldn’t of put out not one album.
    At age 25 Tupac was a rapper, actor, producer, poet, screenwriter, and a black activist.
    - If you were around the west coast in the 90’s you would know that Pac was putting together events for gang violence to stop, the same time he was screaming out THUGLIFE.

    The problem is that Tupac was more important outside the music industry as he was in it. Not only did he create some of the most uplifting music with his “lack of lyricism” but he was trying to help minorities overcome the vicious cycle we are going through.

    When it comes to music -75million units sold btw- and what he’s done for the community outside of music, hands down the GOAT…

    • P-Body

      You are right on… That’s my thing what does it take to be the goat? Since people say Jay-Z is but lyrically he isn’t even better than Talib and Mos Def if you want to be technical. Even Keith Murray was more lyrical… So I had to stop arguing back and forth with this subject since it wasn’t making no sense. Jay don’t even rap with emotion to make me feel him as much, it sound like he talking the whole damn time. He talk more about money and all black everything than actually something real that everybody can relate to. I use to smile every time I hear 2Pac bash Jay-Z, I find it humorous.

      To me Pac is the GOAT in my eyes. Nobody did it the way he did it. To me somebody personality and what they do outside of music affect their standing in my GOAT status besides the music they make, the emotion, the flow, the words, and the substance. In 04 I was a big Kanye West fan but after his bitchy ways which was discovered a few years later and his spoil brat attitude I no longer support his music, well I’ll download but I will not shell out extra cash on his product anymore.

      If you ask some people they will say KRS-One is the GOAT, or Rakim is the GOAT. Personally me I don’t think they are but to shit on them and say they aren’t good that would be a lie. To me KRS-One wasn’t that lyrical but he wasn’t simple either and I was never a fan, I did like some songs he made over the time frame though.

    • Rickjamesbitch

      I really doubt that a lot of the people who yelled Thug Life knew what the acronym meant. PAC was a great man and gifted in many fields but that doesn’t make him a great RAPPER. We’re talking about RAPPING not stopping poverty and that kind of stuff, no one can deny Pac’s impact on rap and that his music helped people but there is a difference between making good music and being a good RAPPER. Kid Cudi’s first album was very good but it wasnt really due to his rapping ability. At the end of the day there are several rappers dead or alive who would rap circles around Pac and could make uplifting music like Nas, Common, Big L and Kanye.

      • kidd

        I personally like other peoples music more than Tupacs but were everyone differs on and what DuB failed to do in his blog is give us an outline of what makes a rapper the GOAT. My main argument is that I disagree with everything DuB stated. Based on his blog he judges Tupac on his lyrical ability, “realness”, becoming greater since his death and his legacy up until he died v if he was still living. All he does is gives us a statement and very little proof to support it.

        Lyrical ability – we all know there are tons of lyrical rappers out there and Pac wasn’t near the top of the list but he did manage to create more than a handful of classic songs – dear momma, brendas got a baby, keep ya head up, 2 of amerikaz most wanted, I aint made at cha, me and my girlfriend, to live and die in la – list goes on DuB, all quality/timeless songs and that doesn’t account for his more “smarter political aware” songs, so doesn’t that make him lyrical in his own way?? Btw, all these songs are “very repetitive”, right? gtfoh

        “Realness” – this by far is your dumbest argument. You talk about how he went to a performing arts school and then ask “how hood is that?” Later in the same blog u talk about him going to prison, being shot, sued, forget to mentioned raised by a single mother hooked on crack, having a childhood influenced by the black panther community, the LAPD is tied in to his murder, etc… Dub, how hood is that? gtfoh

        I already touched on the other two points…

        To be honest I think you wrote this blog to get some emotion out of people. You did a great job but you based everything on senseless and conflicting facts.. smh

        “It’s better to look like an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”

        Come out with a proper list of what the credentials are to becoming the GOAT then support them..

        • http://nappyafro.com DuB

          “Lyrical in his own way” that is ignorance if I have ever heard it. The fact that he didn’t have a record until he was in the spotlight proves both that he created a persona, and he wasn’t what he claimed he was.

          You just used a bunch of words not to say shit dawg.

          • Reason

            What did he claim to be and how is he not that & how was he not who claimed to be? Before you said he was real but how cam he be “real” & not who he claimed to be at the same time I mean did you know him to be able to say he was being a phony I mean what you describe as a persona is more like an image and all celebrities have it even your favorite rapper and it changes as they progress through life just as all humans change in life due to different experiences with that said “If you could walk a mile in my shoes you would be crazy too…” – Pac

  • kidd

    Lyrical in his own way in regards to rapping about social and political awareness.. Do you know the definition of ignorance? Jay, Em, Snoop, Common, etc are all lyrical in their own way – that’s the beauty of poetry/hip-hop..

    Records beore the spotlight? Before rollin with Humpty Hump?

    Can you go more in depth and tell me where I went wrong?

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    Yes Pac was politically aware. That is his strongest attribute as an emcee. He wasn’t even the best at that. I would rather hear NaS, Common, or even Public Enemy speak on the same things Pac was and use their lyrical ability. If you are speaking politically I will agree Pac is one. Of the best politicall emcees, with the way he conveyed emotion.

    Still in every other aspect he isn’t top ten. Ray allen may be the best 3 point shooter ever, but is he the greatest player? No and Pac ISN’T THE BEST RAPPER PERIOD.

    • Reason

      And neither is Nas, Common or Public Enemy

  • kidd

    Haha so who’s the greatest? Who has the whole package and how do you judge it.. Remember he died at 25 and in his short time he’s accomplished more than any other rapper has in and out of the industry. Back to my original statement, your opinion is inconsistent.. If we’re talking records sold he’s up there, if its albums he’s up there, if its singles he’s up there, if its outside the industry he’s up there.. Pac stopping short due to time is like jordan retiring after his 3rd and 6th ring – both in his prime

  • Chyea

    You’re thinking from a Hip Hop perspective try to like at it as ART, take away the mainstream and real music stuff…

    Art is self expression.
    Art can move people, change their opinions/mindsets, can connect emotionally.
    From an artistic standpoint, he delivered VERY well. He striked emotion in his listeners.

    Rapping is the technique, wordplay/lyricism/etc.. fall into this. But just like singing, a skilled/talented singer does not make a great artist, that is why you can have the best voice and win American Idol but your album be trash. The best guitarist are all on youtube with a million views doing the fastest riffs, the best artist are expressing themselves and selling millions of records with maybe 5 chords.

    And by no means am I saying High Selling artists are the best.

    As a rapper I TOTALLY agree w/ you he is not GOAT, as an Artist he still isn’t the GOAT.. But he is one of the greatest.

    Good singers out their but there are worse singers that REALLY move you by their CREATION not their ABILITY.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      “You’re thinking from a Hip Hop perspective”

      Nigga its a Hip Hop website. If you want an opinion of an artist not from a hip hop website go to one of these corny websites.

      This is the Fro!!!

      • Reason

        But isn’t hip-hop a form of Art my brotha they do rhyme & use free verse and aren’t rappers also referred to as ARTists

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    I don’t give a fuck about record sales. I could care less about hot singles. Album wise there are many rappers with better catalouges. I don’t care about what he did outside of Hip Hop (acting damn sure doesn’t make him the greatest).

    My argument is pretty straight foward. You cats just don’t have any type of rebuddle that is valid, thus you want to try and attack the post, because you can’t make a real argument.

    I have my opinion on who the greatest is, but that is niether here nor there.Pac isn’t one of the best at all. He is the LL Cool J of the West Coast, except LL is alive.

    • Chyea

      Who has the whole package who is this great artist in your opinion?

  • Chyea

    My comment came out wrong ^^^^ if anything leave with this

    A TALENTED RAPPER & AN ARTIST ARE WAY DIFFERENT

    Rapping is a technique
    Singing is a technique
    Playing piano is a technique
    An artist is defined by his CREATION not by his SKILL. So if you look at the other artist you say are better rappers, take away the fact they are SKILLED and soak in the message

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      Hip Hop is a culture and rapping is the art.if you want to make an argument of Pac being the or one of the greates “artist”, I can understand that. But I’m talking about Hip Hop/ Rap and he isn’t even top ten.

      • Reason

        If hip-hop is culture & rap art then what does it mean to be the greatest if its culture than they’re can’t be a “greatest” it doesn’t make any sense I mean based on your terms because it comes off as the greatest representation of culture so its like saying who’s the best at talking about having sex with women or coming from the bottom or buying expensive stuff etc so with that said does it make it the person who has the most literary content or the person who has the simplest but more people understand it & motivates more people to do something based on what they said

    • Rickjamesbitch

      Yeah but skill affects the creation doesn’t it?
      Not to say Pac doesn’t have any great albums but if you have a rapper who makes an equally good creation and is more skilled wouldn’t that make him better?

      • Reason

        But if the creation is equally good than how can you determine that one was more skilled

  • P-Body

    Wasn’t Canibus more lyrical than LL Cool J? But apparently that didn’t push his career further than it should have… Is Canibus a great? No he is not! He just one of them guys that use a bunch of big words and nobody can’t relate to that shit. I personally liked “Second Round K.O.” song and video but his album was garbage. LL Cool J had more of the total package on his side compared to Canibus. Canibus was one dimensional.

    Since I’m a Boxer I’ll compare this to Mayweather. Ok Floyd Mayweather Jr say he is the greatest of all time, when you look at the guy skill set and defense it is hard to argue on the man style. People may say it is boring but that’s because them fuckers never stepped in the ring and got hit by a person who know how to really punch. He always manage to pick up every fighter apart and figure out their style after the first few rounds of losing. Yeah people say he started cherry picking people as he went up in weight but who doesn’t do that? I can’t lie Roy Jones did it even Sugar Ray Leonard did it as well, Manny Pacquiao did it, Mike Tyson did it before but it is a business so what make dollars make sense. Anyway what I’m trying to say is that Floyd skillset a lone just don’t prove he is the greatest. Most people will say Ali is the greatest not only his skill set but they look at Ali for what he did during his prime and just being the voice. He went to prison for rebelling against the government because he did not want to fight in the war, which I don’t blame him. Personally me I think Mayweather has a way better defense scheme than Ali does and execute much better but like I said earlier the stuff Ali did and how life was at that time when Ali stood up to things really brought out a major difference in Ali compared to Mayweather.

    So for people to at least say Pac ain’t one of the GOAT is crazy to me. He did more in his 25 years than most did at 40. At age 25 Jay-Z, Nas and so forth wasn’t even on dude level. Lyrically they maybe sharper but not everybody can relate to the shit they was talking about. Pac touched people heart and soul kinda like a Martin Luther King/Malcolm X. Remember a lot of us at/were 25 still learning and trying to figure our life out.

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    Yeah Canibus is a great P-Body.your grasping for straws now bro.

    • P-Body

      My brother I can’t co-sign that… You consider that man a great but not Pac? Canibus just say a lot of stuff with big words, okay that’s fine that he read the dictionary all day long.. Not impressed. Pac will always be remembered. Even my nephews who are around 8-15 know about Pac, not because of me and my older sister but the radio, and TV. Dude can’t die.. Physically he is dead but spiritually he isn’t and his present’s is always felt.

      • http://nappyafro.com DuB

        Canibus is the black slim shady

        • Haven’t Picked a Name Yet

          and Slim Shady is the white Tech N9ne. Your point?

        • Rickjamesbitch

          Canibus is good but far from great man… Half of his words don’t even make sense, he just puts big words together but if you look em up it doesn’t make sense some times. If anything dude is too wordy, Eminem is wordy too but a lot of Canibus vocabulary is foreign to people lol.

        • P-Body

          Black Slim Shady? Dude was mainstream before Eminem was…. Also Canibus didn’t make crazy material like Em did. Like I said earlier Canibus just put a lot of big words together just to make himself sound really smart. Who use them words? Not even computer geeks and bookworms use them words. He was just saying something.

          • http://nappyafro.com H2O

            If Canibus was ever really mainstream…maybe I missed something, because I didn’t think one gold album made you mainstream, especially back in 90s when music still sold.

  • Pitbull

    This dude DuB always thinks his opinion is what’s right.

    Child please!

    Pac accomplished something that not many other hip-hop artists can do, he connected with his audience at the highest emotional level. So those people that are die-hard Pac fans are going to hold him up as a G.O.A.T. Just because YOU can’t connect with it, doesn’t mean that his music shouldn’t be held as high. You’re always ranting and raving about Wayne this and Wayne that, lemme tell ya something man. WAYNE IS GARBAGE! Wayne should have retired after Tha Carter 2. No Ceilings was on point, but anything else was GARBAGE. What if someone told YOU, Wayne is not the greatest rapper alive/dead or should NOT be considered a G.O.A.T., with those corny ass rhymes hes been droppin as of late?

    Respect peoples opinion mah dude!

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      Maybe you’re right. Maybe I’m just not SIMPLE enough to appreciate Pac and his elemantary rhymes like you.

      I can’t stand these cats who act like they have something to say but is just repeating what MTV told them.

      Have you’re own fucking opinio, I’ve heard Sway on Mtv say that same shit.

  • Pitbull

    The point is, the dude is no longer with us. So why attack his rep or music? If you know music, then you know Pac has a hardcore following, Why attack it? Let it go, if you don’t feel it…then you don’t feel it. Like i’m sure your mouth is gonna be watering when C4 drops and i’m gonna be snoozin.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      I’m not attacking the man. I’m shedding light to ignorance.

  • Haven’t Picked a Name Yet

    “When Tupac was alive he wasn’t considered this great man, he was just another rapper with a troubled back ground”

    That statement right there showed how clueless Dub is. His record sales, concert sales, influence and respect of his peers all say otherwise. Half the cats in the country didn’t drink Alize until Pac rapped about it. People bought entire soundracks just to hear one new song from Pac. Mickey Rourke, Quincy Jones, and countless others said he was going to be the next star in hollywood.

    I mean really.. is this dude born in 1988 or something? Talk about revisionist history…

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      50 sold records, is he or was he ever considered a great man? If your answere is yes…. then I won’t argue with you.

      Your agrument is soft.

      • Haven’t Picked a Name Yet

        The fact that you are isolating one point I mentioned showed you really don’t have an argument. People who ignore an entire counter-argument and just focus on what they deem the one debatable point are usually people without a freakin clue, but are too stubborn to admit that their argument has absolutely no merit whatsoever and is nothing more than baseless emotional BS.

        • Anonymous

          It has already been agreed that Pac didn’t have a flow, nor the lyricism to compete with other greats. How is he the Goat then? His stories? I can name stories better than his easy. His concepts? No this niggas tightest concept was Me and My Girlfriend, which he got from Nas. His diss records? Naw everyone knows towards the end of his career he did what 50 does now, diss everyone for no real reason (nas, and jay-z).

          What was it? It is the way the media portrays him. Fam he wasn’t an Emcee who can compete with the arguable GOATS

          If you look up, you will see I have said this already.

          • Haven’t Picked a Name Yet

            We’ll just agree to disagree. You can like whoever you wish, but just because someone doesn’t appeal to you doesn’t mean who YOU like is the best. Sorry, the only person that comes close to Pac is Jay-Z, and Jay is years behind Pac when it comes to subject matter.

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            Jay-z is light years ahead of Pac when it comes to music.

  • moneymaker

    This nigga dub can’t even rap but he is talking shit, where is you album nigga but for real tho Pac made songs for everybody and johnny jay made the best beats ever to go along with it. It sound good and inspired my career to make 3 million already at 21 so fuck you niggaz, Tupac all day

  • kidd

    DuB, please answer the following and correct me if I’m wrong:

    1. What do you consider to be characteristics or criteria for the greatest rapper of all time.

    - By answering this question we can all then be on the same page. Your original opinion didn’t have a starting point.

    Once that is answered we can move forward to your statements and premises.

    a. “Whenever we have the discussion about who the best rappers in the game are, we always talk about the music they produce.”
    You claim: “The truth of the matter is that Pac was very much so a mediocre lyricist. His flow never changed, and he was very repetitive with his rhymes.”
    - Here are just a few songs: dear momma, brendas got a baby, keep ya head up, 2 of amerikaz most wanted, I aint made at cha, me and my girlfriend, to live and die in la
    Are these songs lyrically talented or classic hits or are they all repetitive with his rhymes? If a few of these songs are lyrical, he must have some lyrical ability not just on a social and political level and that would make your first argument false.

    Right or wrong?

    b. “Some people listen to Pac and feel that he is the best simply because he is the realest cat to do it.”
    You claim: “cat went to a school for the performing arts. Jada Pinkett was his best friend. How hood is that… you can’t say 2pac is one of the best because how REAL he was”
    - Because he auditioned and got into a school based on talent, not where he grew up, who is parents were, etc. you claim he’s not real. Then you go on to talk about how “he had been shot, sued convicted of rape” and that’s not “real” or “hood” enough for you. Going to jail is as real as it gets and not in a good way.
    Tupac claimed he was the realest NIGGA – again another acronym for Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished – because he stayed true to himself, past and present.

    So, what does it take to be “real” or “hood” and has he ever denied his past?

    c. “Pac became greater in death than he ever could have if he was living.”
    You claim: “When Tupac was alive he wasn’t considered this great man, he was just another rapper with a troubled back ground.”
    - The dude was 25 and you know his resume. Again, look at some of the greats living and dead and ask yourself could they accomplish the amount Tupac has in that short amount of time. Like I mentioned earlier, he was stopping Bloods and Crips from killing each other, he had the WHOLE west coast on his side – name a rapper and see if his whole city likes him. White America portrayed him that way because they were afraid of the movement he was creating while alive. Similar to the reasons JFK, MLK, Malcolm X were killed – yes, Pac was that influential in creating change on that level to the community and white community!

    Am I wrong to say that?

    Again, he sold over 75million copies.. You must influence people while alive in order to influene them once dead… Agree or disagree?

    d. “If Pac was still alive, his legacy wouldn’t be a fraction of what it is today.”
    Again, similar to your last statement, he was only 25 when he died and you can’t argue with his resume and the hits he has or what he’s done for his community. You really think he would be “forced to retire and go into acting”, really man?

    just based on your arguement I can create a stronger arguement that he is the greatest..

    Let me guess Lil Wayne is top 3??

    Again, what do you consider to be characteristics or criteria for the greatest rapper of all time? Because based on lyricism, realness, what he could have done if he was living and his legacy if he were alive (this is what your original blog is all about) you are mistaken he just might be. If there is more to it let us know what, and give us your “expert” opinion on who you think is.

    defend your blog, its funny how you just brush things off…

  • Haven’t Picked a Name Yet

    Anyone can have an opinion. The problem is if you’re going to be bold enough to write a column (on a high-traffic site at that..) you could at least have an informed opinion. Seriously… this article is incorrent for too many places to name. I’m just going to say this: Pac went to a PUBLIC arts school. You mention Jada Pickett, yet to fail to put in perspective the fact that Jada was a poor girl from Baltimore. A PUBLIC arts school is completely different from a PRIVATE Christian academy – the type of school Biggie went to.

  • Eminozzz

    all i can say is… u r a joke. and im straight serious about this. simply the fact that u claim hail mary to be “his most lyrical” song proves that u know nothing about Pac. let the man rest in peace and stop shitting on his image. I understand that u r jealous that u achieved nothing in ur life as compared to him and after u die noone would give a shit, but that doesn’t mean u should project ur complexes here. u r nothing but a shame to a black race. dixi.

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    All I can say is you are dick riding a dead man. I really don’t care about your opinion of me, due to the fact you know nothing about me.

    • P

      You cant say he’s dick riding a dead man when you started the topic. This is what fans are supposed 2 do……..u gonna keep getting comments on this and dont run away because this is your doing. Ive noticed a lot of the comments you didnt have the knowledge or ability to argue against them BTW

  • IT

    to Eminozz that was kind of mean to say

    • kidd

      haha i agree, we shouldnt attack him personally but his statements are fair game.. dub still needs to gather his thoughts and come up with a solid argument to defend his post.. we’ve pointed out too many errors and all dub can say is “you are dick riding a dead man”, ” Maybe I’m just not SIMPLE enough to appreciate Pac and his elemantary rhymes like you”, etc… c’mon man, its good to have your own opinions but they need some logic behind it…

  • P

    For new visitors I would like to say, Dub’s views or opinions does not necesarilly represent that of nappyafro.com

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      So wack, you obviously didn’t. Read my post or you would’ve noticed that was the first thing I said.

      Ask the rest of the staff if they agree with me. 99 percent of our staff will cosign this.

      • P From Da D

        Chill bro I read it, im just making sure people know so they wont think this site is based off some kind of random Tupac hating

        • http://nappyafro.com DuB

          There is no hate in the post. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean I’m hating bro.

          This is what is wrong with these Pac fans. Whenever someone calls out something saying he isn’t the Hip Hop Jesus y’all start bitchin and whining.

          • illd

            Dub – you’re a hater. Who hired you?

  • IT

    DUB, I just want to say sorry for how they are going off on you :(

    • P-Body

      @ IT

      Well I’m not going off on Dub. Dub is a cool dude and a homie, it’s a debate for me, I can’t speak for others. Nothing personal at all… No beef

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    I’ve heard worse….. I’m good

  • IT

    I understand! Its just mess up, when people start putting the person down, instead what he wrote ;0 thats all P-body. When it becomes about the person not being nothing and etc, then it become mean and getting off the subject at hand.

    • P-Body

      I definitely understand where you are coming from. Yeah some people took it a little too personal but everybody know there are some really hardcore Pac fans who would bust a person head in a heartbeat, I mean literally kill somebody for Pac. I use to be one of those types who cuss somebody out if they say something bad about Pac. Now I just laugh and say “whatever”, then debate about it since I been an adult for a while.

      Also some fans still cry over his death and worship him as if he is god, which he is not a god. True enough I’m a super big Pac fan but I don’t worship him or think he is perfect because he is not. Dub is cool about this shit anyway, he ain’t letting this shit get to him. He got better things to do than to get upset and so do I…. I never do internet beef, it’s wack to me and childish. I only speak my mind and voice my opinions fam. I just can’t speak for everybody else though. Well I know the other P he just speaking his mind and it ain’t nothing personal to him also.
      We just want to know what does it take to be the GOAT emcee because if it is all about lyrics and being complex then a person like a Supernatural or Keith Murray should be number 1 then…. but that is not the case.

  • moneymaker

    Dub you’r hurting. The fans decide who is goat or not and if 10 million people say he is a goat then that’s what it is. You opinion is based on how you feel not the rest of the world. These day niggaz raps dont even have emotion and thats what pac brought, that music that make laugh,cry,get angry whatever vide you catch off the greatest rapper all time music

  • PremiumStatus

    Even though I do agree with most points in this article. You must be a Biggie stan.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      I’m a fan of Biggie and Pac. I also like Lil Zane’s first album, but wouldn’t call him the G.O.A.T.

      • P-Body

        You liked Lil Zane album? Smh man…. What ever happen to him anyway?

      • PremiumStatus

        I feel you. I liked my share of Tupac albums, but he will never be the greatest alive.
        He had some amateur wordplay. NaS lyrically eats him.

        Yeah I’m a NaS stan, so…

        • P-Body

          Smh at you man… I’m a big Nas fan too but Nas don’t reach people the way Pac did. Most people in the world consider Pac the greatest….

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            Most people would consider Pac the greatest. I agree with that, but most of those same people aren’t hip hop heads. They are casual fans or only listened to dude on the radio.

            How can someone claim someone is the freatest when they don’t listen to rap at all.

          • P-Body

            C’mon dude I’m just as hip hop as anybody else probably a little more since I grew up around DJ’s and I use to mix & scratch myself besides making beats… My dad and eldest brother are DJ’s. What does being a real rap fan having to do with a person saying Pac is the greatest? If that is how the person feel you can’t just think your right all the time and know what the whole hip hop world think of Pac. Pac was that dude.. Not only me just saying that but you can see all kind of folks coming from the wood works backing me up. Even on other sites on comments people are repping Pac. Some folks who came from the struggle and still going through it can relate to Pac, I can relate. When he rap about a parent being on drugs, I can relate to that one big time. Pac is just as hip hop as a Nas man… Real G’s on the streets love Pac music dog, and that is real. You see a lot of artist til this day have much respect for Pac and love his music still. Even that lame Justin Beiber said that is his favorite rapper which I have to think again because Justin don’t even remember Pac when he was alive, Justin was like 2 years old when Pac died. People really forget how hip hop Pac was in the beginning during his political phase, he always been hip hop though. I actually seen Kastro from the Outlawz last night at this sports bar to watch the UFC fight last night. He a little stuck up and I don’t see why he act that way, nobody didn’t know who he was except for me. Overall man Pac is the greatest that ever put it down in hip hop to me. Nobody can’t make hardcore songs with emotion and a powerful message the way Pac did, then his production was sick.

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            I’m not saying you aren’t a Hip Hop head or that Pac wasn’t Hip Hop.
            I’m just saying that there is a huge demographic of people who claim Pac is the Goat and have never listened to a Jay-z, Nas, Biggie, or even Pac album. They are repping him being the best because the media has placed that man there.

            If you feel he is the best, cool. He doesn’t meet my criteria. Honestly he doesn’t meet most peoples criteria of what the best should be, but they forget about that because Tupac the man is loved so much.

            I honestly feel like he may be the most important emcee ever, because of the impact that he showed an emcee had the power to leave. Still he is far from the best when you just listen to his music.

            Like I said I love Pac, but he is far from the best. Pimps mya connect with Too Short, but that doesn’t make him the greatest. Gay people love Lil B’ doesn’t make him the Goat either. Why does Pac connecting with casual fans make him the greatest?

          • Reason

            I agree with you on the 1st 2 paragraphs that people need to be open to other artists and develop an opinion for themselves I just don’t agree that you can genuinely say that he wasn’t great or even good at what he did but I agree people are bandwagoners but you can’t be an expert on everything or listen to every single rappers songs to give them a fair chance

          • P-Body

            Well you and I know Lil B is nowhere near being mentioned in the GOAT status, we can take that equation out right now. I’m not even just speaking on opinion on Lil B but he is definitely not what you would call GOAT material. He is just a fad that’s all. I can speak for myself with the Jay-Z, Nas, Biggie, and Pac albums thing. I actually bought those CD’s from them. I have the original Ready 2 Die, no remastered. I have the original Makaveli album and All Eyez On Me not remastered. I have the first 7 Jay-Z albums and Streets Is Watching Soundtrack *But I downloaded Kingdom Come – Watch The Throne with Kanye*… I have Nas albums from illmatic to Street’s Disciple *But I downloaded Hip Hop Is Dead – Distant Relatives*. I listen to all of their albums but I strongly feel Pac a lot more. That’s just me. How you love Pac but slander him like that fam? I’m telling you my dude a lot of people feel Pac. The streets got mad love for Pac and his music. You really should see my CD collection though I own so much shit from Common to Redman to Gangstarr to Geto Boys to B.G. to etc… Lets not even go into Cash Money, I own so many of them CD’s from back in the day its not even funny. But I respect your opinion and I see where you coming from fam.

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            I feel like you don’t get what I’m saying, so I won’t argue my point anymore.

          • P-Body

            How you figure that? What point are you trying to make that I haven’t heard before? I’m just stating how the streets really love Pac. Avid hip hoppers love Pac. Some folks I know that have a hate for Pac or get upset about folks calling him the GOAT are the folks from New York, they still have a sour taste in their mouth after all these years and also big Jay-Z & Notorious BIG stans. Don’t get me wrong I love Notorious BIG music and I love Jay-Z music *95-07* but I’m no stan. Some of these folks are the same ones that try to say Pac can’t rap or limited wordplay but think Krs-One is the best which is a lie! Krs is good but his stuff don’t reach me at all, and the way he rap it is boring. Is Krs lyrical? Yes he is. Some of these folks throw Jean Grae in the mix which is cool, she is dope but she isn’t no where near my favorite and I don’t bump her like that.. Honestly I don’t really listen to female rappers much.

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            That is what you like. There is a difference between what you like and who the best is. You aren’t getting my point, I can tell because you are in no way responding to what I am saying.

            I get Pac touched you, but that doesn’t change the fact that many emcees would make his bars look elemantary.

          • Reason

            But the Best is just an opinion

          • P-Body

            Well to me Pac is the truth. I don’t see nobody being better than Pac but that’s just me. The more I think about it though, sometimes it is hard for me to say who is the actual GOAT. Some songs I hear from Andre 3000 or anybody who is talented make me say “Damn!! This dude right here!”. It really depend on my mood and what day it is.

  • P From Da D

    I do think Nas is the G.O.A.T tho, but 2pac is the only close competitor in my mind. But to say he should never be considered the G.O.A.T is just ridiculous to me. What criteria are you going by? Matter of fact Dub who is your G.O.A.T …….im pretty sure this is gonna be an easy competition once you name him

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    Who my GOAT is doesn’t matter. I have plenty of Emcees on my list above Pac. Common is better than Pac too, and he is on my all time list at twelve.

    • P From Da D

      -_-…………ok rap fan

      • http://nappyafro.com DuB

        Andre 3 stacks is light years ahead of Pac as well

  • spyda

    i cosign the above statement. actually truth be told, andre 3000 lightyears ahead of everybody.

    • Reason

      He’s an ATLien emphasis on alien but I feel like the best way to describe the whole hip-hop GOAT debate is with another form of expression like Painting style Pac is like the artist that can paint a pear and it looks like it was a photo while 3 stacks is like a Picasso painting so abstract but you can still understand what is being said with that said is abstract art better than photo realism or is it just personal preference?

  • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

    1- There’s not a day where I don’t have a thought about Pac or speak about how influential his music is, even to this day, he was WAY ahead of the time.

    2- Wayne out did Pac in a song?!?! Why are you even blogging on a hip hop site??? On top of that, the other 5 are all from NY…Hmmmm.

    3- You don’t even mention that Pac was a Panther, or at least VERY much impacted by that movement. So, with him going to a art school, and not being very “thug life”, he was as thug as you could get!!! Getting the knowledge and views of the white man you didnt get in the hood, then taking it back with him to that exact place, along with the Panther views… Cus it ain’t like he didn’t grow up in the hood!!! How is his jada days relevant to this? Pac was making something outta himself as a high school kid WHILE LIVING IN THE HOOD.

    A. Pac woulda had to retire if he was alive, huh? Last time I checked, Snoop was still at it, Quik was still at it, Dre was still at it, and the whole Death Row was still at it in some way.

    B. If Pac spitting at reporters is creating a persona, who isn’t creating a persona in ANY industry. Dude kept it more real than any one. I don’t see people saying how they REALLY feel about a topic like he did. So, wouldn’t that mean the industry is more fake than ever?

    C. People ALWAYS looked up to Pac, the media and government might have portrayed him as an angry black man, but it was because they didn’t have the hood upbringing he had. You see some crazy things growing up in the hood, especially with some Panthers. That’s another reason the politics were so anti-Pac…

    D. Don’t EVER mention Lil’ B being a legend if he died, dude is still in 1981 when it comes to rap. THAT right there, is disrespectful.

    E. Lastly, Pac dying played the biggest part of changing in the direction of Hip Hop. If Pac, Biggie, Big L, Pun, etc. were all still around, three-forth’s of these CLOWNS would not be relevant or existing. I’ll stop here, and let you come up with some excuses.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      U madd??? I know the truth hurts.

    • P-Body

      Amen WhiteBoywithhiphopknowledge

      @Dub c’mon dude a lot of people love Pac fam. If you don’t like Pac that’s fine but you can’t expect everybody to feel the same way as you do about 2Pac. The way you feel don’t mean it is exactly correct on what symbolize a GOAT in hip hop. If you ask some people especially old folks they think everybody in rap sucks and they say its not real music.. So it is what it is homie

  • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

    No answers??? Explain yourself.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      Your a Tupac dick rider….. I get it fam. None of your points actually had to do with music, so what is the point of arguing?

  • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

    I’m a Pac FAN, no riding here. I just broke down your article based on the comments and how I perceived them. No, none of them had to do with music, but music is something that you can relate to in life, it’s an image you want to paint and a story with emotion, etc., like P-Body said. As an artist, you want to relate to the fans, because with out them, there would be no “artist” whoever it may be. And, it is something that Pac did better than any other rapper, in my opinion. He is by far not the best lyricist, but, he had people thinking, something no too many rappers do anymore.

  • P From Da D

    I just really dont know WTF Dub is listening to.

    • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

      word…he won’t give us any list of who he thinks is better. but just randomly says names to keep every one quiet. but the names he throws out, are obvious ones…smh

      • http://nappyafro.com DuB

        I didn’t say Pacs lyrical ability was non existant? I didn’t claim his wordplay was eqivilant to a juvenile emcee?

        My very first point in the article is that Pac fans never talk about his actual music when claiming he is the best. They always talk about who he was as a person, and well that is exactly what you are doing.

        Just to name three (I keep bringing these three up and you cats act illiterate) Nas, Common, and Andree 3000 would demolish Pac musically.

        Lyrically Pac was the equivilant of LL Cool J, he just had different subject matter.

        • Eagle Eye

          I feel you on your point. There all valid. Even with that said Pac is top 5 dead or a live based only on his music for me (at worse top 10).

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            He is in my top 15, but I understand why people would have him higher.

          • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

            I disagree with conceptually, the meaning of that word is to portray an image or relate to, and I think Pac was above average in this. There may be some better but, he wasn’t lacking much in my eyes when it came to this. It could also be in the same category as relating to people… *Shoulder Shrug*
            Wordplay, he DEFINITELY lacked, and he would have matured into that over time, I think. But the way he used words, and stayed on beat, to me that was something I liked about Pac, was something different about it…Big to me is the best wordplay rapper though.
            Flow, I can say the same thing you did about Pac, but say Nas…
            the last two, are pretty undebatable…whether you like it or not…lol

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            So according to what you are saying Pac was only great at two of these attributes, while you have people like Hov, Nas, Big, Common, Andree 3000, and others that are great at every aspect and Pac is still the greatest?

            NO!!! If you can’t understand that you aren’t being honest with yourself.

          • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

            NO, if you can’t understand what I’m saying, you need to provide a list. I just said he was not the BEST LYRICAL, but he IS the best rapper of all time. There was only 5 topics to judge and I’m pretty sure I said he was pretty exceptional in 4 of them…smh

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            So his wordplay and flow are exceptional? Wow!!! You are a lost cause bro, can you even name one time he switched up his flow?

            I doubt it

          • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

            Yeah, I think so, gvg said it best, ” Pac didn’t have many metaphors, punchlines or wordplay he mastered the concept of reaching simplicity to express complexity.” Lost cause? Don’t turn into Meka from 2dbz now… Can’t take criticism??? And I don’t need to prove that he ever switched up his flow, consistency is what you got with Pac. And like I said, name a time NaS has switched his up.

        • P From Da D

          I will say Pac music is the best…….

        • Eagle Eye

          If you have him in your top 15 tht is very high – i thought you would have him lower. We have no beef on this topic… lol — I feel your article. Read a few times. Valids points again!

        • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

          Yeah, I brought up topics not related to his music DIRECTLY, but in some way they do relate, c’mon my dude. And he is in top 10 lyrically. Best RAPPER of All-Time YES. Lyrical, NO. And what about his music, AS A WHOLE, doesn’t make him the best RAPPER of all time? You just keep talking the same thing OVER AND OVER, but if you want to debate it, holla!

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            How can you claim he is the best when in most of the categories we use to judge an emcee on he lacks in.

            Conceptually- Not very good. His best concept was probably Me and My Girlfriend which he took from Nas.

            Wordplay- he was definitely lacking there.

            Flow- he never changed up his flow. His flow wasn’t special at all

            Story telling- this was one of his strongest attributes, but iit is obvious Nas, Common, Jay, Biggie, and many other artist are head and shoulders above him

            Connecting with people- this is the one thing I can actually agree he may have been the elite emcee at, but it is simply not enough.

  • DJ LP

    Controversy is the best way to generate a buzz/get attention. Hopefully this does its purpose besides actually pissing people off and giving the ‘Fro a bad name for going at someone that was deemed untouchable(along with BIG) when we talk about legacy

    I can’t really give my opinion. Haven’t given Pac the proper listen he deserves

  • spyda man

    in my opinion tech n9ne is the goat.

  • gvg

    I’m a huge Hip Hop head and I personally consider Pac the GOAT (even though there really can’t be one since Hip Hop is very diverse.) While Pac didn’t have many metaphors, punchlines or wordplay he mastered the concept of reaching simplicity to express complexity. He put messages in such simplistic form that it still held a deep impact. (ex.”Some say the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice / I say the darker the flesh then the deeper the roots”). Pac also did attend an art school as a youngster, but he grew up around thugs, hustlers, pimps etc. (he never lived in a privileged neighborhood) It was his Boys n Girls Club in a way. He left the hood for school and that was it. Now it’s been on record that Pac shot two officers who harassed a man and that he was riding in a car with Kool G Rap and a few other West Coast MC’s popping off rounds in the 92′ LA Riots. Now that’s real, he wasn’t acting if he actually did it, unlike Officer Ross. And I do agree with your third point, but it doesn’t just apply to Pac it happened to Big L, Big, J Dilla etc. Everyone suddenly cares about you when you die. It may even happen to me or you. I also disagree with your last point. Pac was planning on making a political party. His music epitomized revolution and that would have just brought even more credibility and exposure to his music. For example, Immortal Technique is doing this same thing independently and has gained thousands of fans across the world with his revolutionary message and political activism. Pac was also a commercial success making him one of the best or the best.

    • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

      Chuuuch! @gvg

  • gvg

    Oh yeah, and mentioning Lil B made you lose all credibility with me.

  • P-Body

    I honestly think Dub has a strong hatred towards Pac and I’m sorry if a lot of people feel like Pac is the best but a lot of us can relate to him. To hate on a dead man is flat out wrong. Like I said before people tend to forget that the man was 25 when he died so he was still growing as a person and as a man overall. Look at Jay-Z, dude is 41 now, and he had time to grow more as a man. If Biggie would have live longer I’m sure he would have matured more and been about his business also… He would probably elevate higher as a lyricist also and he was already high enough.

    I don’t know why people always think because somebody have the dopest metaphors or the most complex lyrics are considered the GOAT. If that was the case that rapper name Supernatural would be the GOAT since he is really ill lyrically….. You have to reach people also in order to make people listen to you. What a person do sometimes outside of music help a lot though if a person is a super arrogant asshole then I won’t support them nor listen to shit they have to say. Just like Kanye I was a big Kanye supporter in the beginning but when he start acting like a bitch and having bitch fits I just couldn’t keep making this man richer while I’m getting broke.
    Some folks consider Ice Cube a GOAT but at the same time you have to look at this, Ice Cube wasn’t even a complex lyricist… In the beginning dude was doing gangsta shit then transform into the political stuff, and he had a great voice that made you listen. The shit Cube was rapping about was going on for real at that time and many people connected with that. Cube is definitely in my all time list *based on his older material though and how much captivated music at that time*

    • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

      Couldn’t agree more P-Body!!! And, might I add…IF BIG was still alive, Hov wouldn’t be Hov.

      • P-Body

        You know something, I use to say the same thing about Jay-Z but I have to remember though back then Jay-Z was a beast then. He was one of the few who actually hanged with Biggie lyrically… Jay always been about business though so I kinda think Jay would still be where he is at right now but I also think if Biggie was alive he would be on another level also. IDK though, its hard to tell since he is not living anymore. I still remember the news when they announced he was murdered… That shit was a fucked up day and definitely when I seen on TV about 2Pac getting slain. That tore up the rest of the year for me. Overall I see what Dub is saying but at the same time just because somebody is super lyrical, switch flow and etc does not classify them being a GOAT. Another person such as a Tech is lyrical and can switch up the flow… Is he a GOAT? Not to me but maybe for other folks though.. I know Spyda consider him a GOAT, nothing wrong with that. He have a solid fan base and a lot folks support dude. Some folks consider Jay a GOAT, depend on who you ask. Some folks say Scarface is a GOAT… It all depends…. They all have their strengths and weakness

        • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

          Agreed. That’s kind of what I was getting at, if BIG was still here, he would be that dude on a whole other level. Hov might be where he is now, but BIG would be “higher.” And these Lil’ B’s wouldn’t exist ha

          • P-Body

            Yeah it would be nice to not have the Lil B’s in the hip hop game but at the same time he bring humor and it have me cracking up sometimes. I honestly don’t think Big would be rapping much if he had lived though, he probably would focus on his Brooklyn Mint clothing line or push more with Junior Mafia… I’m sure him, Jay-Z & Charlie Baltimore would have been dropped The Commission album also. With me being a Notorious BIG, I know he was the most big word rhymer like a Keith Murray but Biggie had that voice and just his whole style that captivated everybody. Honestly at that time he didn’t say nothing new that we haven’t heard, but it was the way he said it though. Big was so damn raw on the mic. I miss Big being in the game. His first two albums are definitely classics. Anyway Pac is the GOAT to me and nothing isn’t changing that unless somebody right now in 2011 come into the game, and just blow me away. I highly doubt that will happen though. Nobody really haven’t wow me a long time.

        • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

          Kendrick doesn’t wow you?

          • P-Body

            Kendrick is good but he doesn’t wow me. I don’t really get excited about people musically anymore much.. I think those days for me are over with.

  • Eagle Eye

    My Goat list as of today – no particular order

    Rakim
    Ice Cube
    Scarface
    Nas
    Common
    Pac
    Jay Z
    Andre 3K
    Bun B
    Em

    • Eagle Eye

      Forgot — Dam – Of coarse Biggie. But the list could go on on.

      • P-Body

        My list is kinda similar but at the same time it changes like crazy though because it’s so many different emcees that brought things to the table in different era’s.

        • Eagle Eye

          So true — my list changes daily. Top 20 these days are top 5 10 yrs ago.. Just too many great Emcee – now.

          • P-Body

            For me I even have Redman on my list…. I use to have Kurupt and Raekwon on the list…. Then I’ll change them around. I had LL, Big Boi and Cee-Lo on my list once upon a time ago. It all depend on what year and time you ask me my top 10 lol. Pac is definitely number 1 for me and that never changed after all these years.

          • WhiteBoyWithHipHopHistory

            Kurupt is WAYYY underrated. Glad to see someone else recognize him.

          • Eagle Eye

            The Kurupt the Kingpin from 92-98 was the best of all time…Could body anybody on the MIC. One of the few Emcee that could handle Canibus in his prime. Lately he’s just off.Hunger not there anymore

            But in my top 20 GOAT.

          • P-Body

            I agree but I think the 92-96 Kurupt was the best even though 97-98 was good too. Death Row had a camp but like a lot of things it had to end due to greed and stupid shit. Suge is dumb for not making that label bigger than what it was. It had mad potential to being the Motown of the 90′s. Kurupt isn’t in my GOAT list now but he use to be. He isn’t as hungry anymore and his voice sound kinda different now, maybe its from all those years of smoking cigarettes.

          • Eagle Eye

            yea i know — Kurupt hit or miss (mostly miss) – But i think imo he drop a classic West Coast album Street is a Mutha album in 99 and the classic verses on Dog Food. boi was a monster.

  • Bwhizz

    First time to the site.. Terrible article! Nobody wants your personal opinion of Tupac’s legacy. I come back when yall get sum real editors.

    • http://twitter.com/executivesmoke Vic D

      All journalism is opinion… Unless it’s the news.

      • Reason

        News is too

    • P From Da D

      Dont blame it on the site

    • P-Body

      Co-sign with Vic & P

    • Clay Davis

      When I saw Bwhizz’s comment I really wanted to go on a rant about how good the editors here are and I respect everyone of them on the site. nappyafro.com is so different and unique from the rest of the web I been here since 2008 and haven’t left. Common sense doesn’t always prevail as one would figure Dub wouldn’t have to put op.ed at the top since he put a disclaimer in red.

      Oh yeah Bwhizz eat a bowl of hot dicks.

  • Chris

    The problem with the author’s article is that its main argument rises on pure supposition and speculation. While it can be debatable if Pac was the greatest (an arbitrary claim) the author states an opinion that cannot be judged as fact. Therefore, it’s an argument that holds no grounds. Someone stated that Pac died at the tender age of 25 and was still maturing – we’ll I agree; he had accomplished more at that age than anyone before him – so any comparisons with other rappers that grew and got older – is irrelevant.

    • P-Body

      Chuuuuuch….

    • Practical

      Chuch.

    • Erik Udd

      DuB got silenced with this one

  • Anonymous

    you are an idot!!

  • A_Daramy

    This article caught my attention because it’s about my boy Pac who imo is the GOAT. I was interested in hearing the arguments about Pac not being the best, but none of the claims hold ground wit me. Simply put, in my opinion the GOAT has to be the realest. A lot of people have talent, but it’s like the saying: “nobody cares what you have to say until they know how much you care” That’s a weak line, but my point is that millions of people see Pac as a real dude. Pac said himself when alive that how can people say they care about the hood (or their communities) but they don’t help out these communities. A lot of people don’t know but had a plan to put community centers and the like in every hood in the U.S. He was using his controversy to build a platform of influence. His own words stated that he would be cool with Biggie if the gov gave him these community centers. Although his beef with Biggie and the east was real, he was going to flip it into a positive.
    People see Pac as a real dude and until some one realer comes along in Hip Hop, he deserves to be on everybody’s top 5 lists. I haven’t even touched on his music yet, but in short Pac hardly, if ever, fails to paint genuine pictures in your mind. He didn’t waist his breath on punchlines that have no substance. Pac came real. He didn’t have lie and say that he was a big time drug dealer. He rapped saying that he understood why people did it, but he never glorified it. People love Pac because while we can see through a lot of other rappers, Pac was real.

    • P-Bod

      *Internet high five*

      • A_Daramy

        Shout out to Dub for his previous article on 2Pac, which held Pac in his rightful esteem. Shout out to P-Bod because I first found this site when looking for unreleased Pac songs. Your unreleased Pac releases make up most of my collection on Pac.

        While everyone is naming their top artists I would throw my 2 cents in. My top list consists of rappers who I have no doubt in my mind were real people. Whether they were right or wrong at least they talked about real stuff. But it’s always better when what they represent are things I believe in: First Pac, then in random order – Biggie, Nas, Scarface, UGK (Pimp C is a beast and Bun B is trill). There’s def more I can name, but this list shows where I’m comin from a lil bit. P.S. I like Ace Hood as a person and would like to see him grow into one of the greats.

        • P-Body

          Thx homie. This whole debate is all fun though, I like to get people opinion on this subject because regardless I still think Pac is the best. I’m going to go off subject but Royce Da 5’9″ is an real ill emcee probably one of the best right now and would rip a hole in majority of the rappers out right now but some reason he just don’t have that IT factor to grab the crowd like a Pac or a Jay-Z can but he definitely deserve his chance though. I agree with UGK being on the list. That verse from Bun on “Murder” was enough right there alone to prove how ill the man can get. Then his verse on Big Tymers “Playboy” featuring Lil Wayne & Bun, his verse was so damn ill on that bitch and the way he came on the mic. Bun is heavily underrated! That’s what I hate about hip hop they treat us southerns like we don’t have lyrics, these stupid labels are the ones signing the weak ones so therefore the real talented ones don’t get no shine. They just use the weak ones as a tax write off. Regardless even though you see me and Dub go back & forth it is all good, nothing serious. It’s just our personal belief’s. No matter what I still think the fans decide on who they consider the GOAT

          • A_Daramy

            I agree it is all fun. What would rap be without the fans.. Royce da 5’9 is tight and I think Em’s talent pushes him to be even better. BTW, I forgot Eminem on my list. All of his albums are tight. And listening back to his first: Slim Shady LP. That thing is a classic. I used to have the tape before he really blew up with his second: Marshall Mathers LP. When it comes to battles, he might be one of the best, although he has not really been tested, but his freestyles speak for themselves that he will give any opponent a run for their money. I like yall’s site man because yall not afraid to voice yall opinion, but I can see still have love for each other.

          • P-Body

            No doubt A_Daramy, it’s nothing serious we just debate on things it may seem like we are mad but nah. Some of us are grown men from ages 25 through 30 something but we have a lot of young viewers in high school though. That’s the thing with the site though we don’t give a shit on how people feel and it’s not like a lot of other sites that get paid under the table to be biased. This site is for the regular people who aren’t afraid to take a stand and speak on how they feel on things. I don’t always agree with Jerm, Dub, and whoever only sometimes but at the end of the day we all homies so it’s nothing major, it’s all love. This type of shit actually help us get a better understanding on why we feel a certain way about an artist or the artist product as a whole. Yes Royce is that muthafucka I just hate he don’t get the right push and he can’t appeal to the crowd. Dude is lyrically a beast, this is coming from a dude from the south with a mad southern accent. Eminem “Marshall Mathers” was ill my dude he sounded hungry along with “Slim Shady”. I didn’t like “Encore” though. Recovery was dope to me but not everybody on the site agree’d with me on that so I caught mad flack for that lol. Oh well… Besides me boxing, producing beats, and going to school for IT, hip hop is something we debate about. Some of us been knowing each other for years in person and some of us use to work together also. Me, B-Easy and Jerm use to run that fuck ass job we was on at that time but it was fun times though. We use to debate all the damn time on hip hop during breaks and on the shift around 04-06. Next thing you know the site came into existence.

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      I just read your comment, and about 90 percent of it is irrelevant. You spent most of your time speaking to the fact that he was a great man and I agree.

      Allow me to say that the fact that he was real isn’t enough to elevate his Status as an emcee. For example both Cassidy, and Max B are in prison for doing things they rapped about. Does this make them in contention for greatest off all time? Hell No!

      You said Pac didn’t waiste his time spitting complex rhymes, if you aren’t a fan of complexity and concepts and Stories, then I wouldn’t consider you much of a Hip Hop fan. That statement is not intended to be disrespectfull, but it would just seem like you are more of a poetry type of person.

      If we were debating who the best poet inspired by Hip Hop was it would be either Pac or Saule Williams.

      • A_Daramy

        I want to come back with a more thought out reply because I don’t take your comment as disrespectful but as a genuine debate, but for now: maybe Cassidy and Max B are not in contention for the GOAT title because they weren’t real enough. It’s not about whether or not you go to prison, but if what you represent and aspire towards is worth even talking about or going after. A lot of rappers play an image because it brings in money. That’s not being true. Take for instance the Godfather, everybody’s seen the movie. In it they were trying to become legit with legit money making businesses. Their previous lives were ruthless, but they were smart enough to become legit. I want to be careful with what i’m about to say because I love real rappers whether they are right or wrong, but it’s not smart to go to prison for the stuff you rap about. It’s wiser to keep it on the low. In other words the real gangsters are usually not running towards the crime like the image a lot of rappers portray, but are trying to get out of the crime. Which is what the hip hop industry has helped countless rappers to do. Pac even said it in a couple of his interviews back in the day interviews: that hip hop was the new way for black men to rise and be legit with the income. He stated that the police can’t block a black man from making money through rap

        In regards to your claim about complex rhymes, no disrespect, but for the sake of debate, maybe you didn’t hear when I said that people don’t care what people (rappers) have to say nonetheless how they say it (complex rhymes), if they as individual persons nor their words are not going to help bring you to a better place.

      • A_Daramy

        I know it sounds like I don’t hear what you are saying about being the GOAT as an emcee, but we have to agree to disagree because in my opinion rap is about representing yourself and what you believe in. Not an alter ego or an action figure. The GOAT, in my opinion has to be the realest emcee.

        • http://nappyafro.com DuB

          My respond to that is simple. Many Emcees promote positivity like Pac did (Nas, Common, Andree 3000, and J. Cole to name a few) and many of this have the ability to drop some of the most complex rhymes.

          I feel like many peopple are reading this and somehow feel that I am saying rappers who spew nothing but ignorance should be above Pac. I am saying that there are truly emcees out there who spit the same messages as Pac did but also have the “Emcee” ability.

        • http://nappyafro.com DuB

          Still though, mad respect for how you responded, you actually brought points to the table. Respect!!!

          • A_Daramy

            Respect man, although we still disagree. Others may have your same opinion, but not bold enough to put it out like you did. Lol. you put it out there in Bold letters. I like the artists you named, probably for the same reasons a lot of people like them: they have substance. I would say that rappers without substance are still relevant. IMO, Lil Wayne is a good asset to Hip Hop because of his talent. I don’t know how others feel about this, but from listening to the CarterIV and trying to see why people claim him as the greatest, I concluded that he has a different genre of hip hop, which is basically entertaining. It’s relevant to hip hop because it sounds tight and can jam in your car and make your day feel good. However, In my opinion the rappers that tell real stories and keep it real with you about themselves and about life should be the ones in contention for the title of greatest of all time. There are a lot of rappers out there with rightful claims for second place.. lol. To me I can’t feel no other rapper as much as I feel Pac’s songs and lyrics. But for the title of best rapper alive, time will tell. Maybe when Nas’ album drops he can claim that title. I hope either him or Scarface claim it.

  • Bang’Em

    I stopped reading at this part………….

    Tupac’s greatest lyrical song is often noted as “Hail Mary”, I can name plenty of emcees who have out done that song, more than a few times. (Jay-Z)

    Jay-Z is garbage

    • Rickjamesbitch

      Honestly your opinion became invalid once you said Jay-Z is garbage..

  • UJUSTDON’TKNOW

    I’ve heard plenty tupac songs when his flow has been sick listen to street fame nigga . Now in his lyrical ability he may use the same lyrics but you aint getting the fact that his lyrics made people think although repetitive its not as if he spit full songs with the same lyrics just some songs you just keep talking shit about how people leaving comments saying nothing about his music making but the person he was made his lyrics mean something to people which many rappers cant do Jay-z didn’t live a mafioso lifestyle b.i.g didn’t sell crack an fuck all sorts of hoes not that pac did either but I bet he seen more shit like that (people struggling living rough) than your GOAT an you tell me you living in the ghetto no lights on mother on crack you aint gonna do anything you can to make something of yourself pac is the GOAT because he touched people you think he would’ve got put on the vatican playlist if he had average wordplay mabye he didnt spit like big an the other greats with punchlines an metaphors but no one puts together a song like pac whether its talking about relevant thing or taking shots at someone he rapped about things people think of still today which people relate to more than any other rapper an if that isnt what hip hop is then u whiter than casper getting spooked

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    Outside of writing for the best Hip Hop website on the net, you don’t know anything about me.

    For all you know I have lived the type of life Pac pretended to have lived

    • P From Da D
      • http://nappyafro.com DuB

        It is pretty self explanatory

        • P From Da D

          So you were raised with Pac? And knew his every move and action? And are you trying to tell me you were a thug Dub?

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            I had a joke about your reading skills, but I will just say read it again.

  • P From Da D

    @Dub

    O yeah ok my bad lol

  • Anonymous

    To my man Dub. I thank you man for giving Pac fans an outlet to express why we feel the greatest rapper of all time is the greatest. A lot of people choose between Big and Pac. I like both, but personally role wit Pac as the greatest.

    To start with some food for thought: It should make you think just by the fact that you and others have to contend with so many people who feel Pac is the greatest, when he hasn’t even made a track since 96′. Pac is competing for greatest of all time and hasn’t made a song in 15 years.

    Now to the debate that I wanted to engage in when I first wrote a few days ago. I know we kinda agreed to disagree, but I have to use this outlet to get my thoughts out.

    1) You challenged the music Pac produced and stated Hail Mary as his greatest lyrical achievement. My question to this is: when did Pac ever fail to deliver viciously on a track. The man’s rhymes and delivery were masterful. Again this is my opinion, but I can’t see anyone disagreeing that Pac’s flow and delivery is the hardest, rawest, and let alone the realest of any other emcee. And you Dub or any other can honestly that Pac was boring on a song. He always brung it, and almost always made you think. He didn’t have to switch up his flow because his flow (how he let the words out) is the best flow out there. You can’t help , but nod your head to the music. AND SPEAKING OF MUSIC PRODUCTION: The man by age 25 (1996) made the most music (released & unreleased) than any other artist at that time. …To Be Continued…

    • A_Daramy

      Mybad, I forgot to put my name on the previous comment, but It is me

  • A_Daramy

    2) The “realness” of Pac was challenged, with the argument that he went to a performing arts school. The question was raised if Pac was really a thug. My answer: how can you not see that he was thug. It is the circumstances that make an individual a thug (attitude and character of holding your own; never letting anybody walk over you, and own the respect of others as someone not mess with). Pac’s persona was not made up. His circumstances (growing up in poverty, in the black panther movement, mother on crack, father not home, running the streets where the pimps, drug dealers, and others ran) shaped him into the person he was and the performing arts school helped shape him into the artist he was. Jada Pinkett said it herself that she saw how poor Pac lived (one pair of jeans, single mattress on floor, etc.). AND SPEAKING OF BEING A THUG: when Pac got shot in 94 five times, it happened because the dudes tried to rob him of his chains and jewelry, but instead of giving them up, Pac reached for his own gun, resulting in them shooting him first. How many people do you know that would do what Pac did in the same situation? Probably only the real thugs right? Pac ran the streets and had real homeboys from the streets (listen to his lyrics when he talks about this stuff and says RIP to people such as Kato and Mental). Pac is not in the same category as Rick Ross (as was mentioned in the arguement against Pac) because Pac was not a thug who glorified drug dealing, killing, etc. Pac was a thug that really lived and knew life on the streets, but wanted to change the circumstances of all minorities who had to live like that. Even his beef with the other rappers who he had problems with, he turned into lyrical killing instead of physical killing. To Be Continued…

  • A_Daramy

    3) Pac’s legacy was challenged with the statement that he became greater in death than he could ever have if he lived to this day. If this is the case then why was Me Against the World: the first rap album to go platinum? Why did All Eyez on Me go multi-platinum in only months of release. He would have been loved by music fans similar to how Michael Jackson was until death. Pac was above music though, so his legacy would have been even greater if still alive. He was a revolutionary similar to Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.

    Now to the categories in which we judge emcee’s. I think the following categories were mentioned within the debate on this article 1) Concepts, 2) Flow, 3) Story Telling and 4) Connecting with People. Let’s go in: Pac’s musical concepts were original and ahead of their time. His whole outlaw immortal group was his concept and he gave them all names real world so called “outlaws” (which they keep to this day). After getting shot and coming off an 11 month prison bid on bail, he vowed to get revenge on everybody he had problems with by murdering them lyrically, which was a new concept.
    Pac’s flow was nothing short of mesmerizing because when you listen to his music, you don’t nod your head just a lil bit. You nod your whole neck and body because you feel the delivery, and not to mention you feel how real and deep felt the lyrics are.
    Pac’s story telling is a 9/10 at the very least in my opinion. Examples: check out “Soulja’s Story” from the 2pacalypse Now CD. The story and song go hard and it was from 1991. From Brenda’s Got a Baby, to If My Homie Calls, to 16 on Death Row, to Pain (above the rim), to Str8 Ballin, to Ballad of a Dead Souljah, to When thugs Cry to Ghetto Star (original) to Thugz Mansion, to Better Dayz, to Unconditional Love, to many more. The truth is: all of his songs were stories because they were all about real life stuff people relate to whether they live a thug life or not.
    Finally Pac’s ability to reach people has already been established in the debate. I just want to add that a lot of people see in Pac what they would like to have in themselves. For instance his ability to flip the script on his enemies and come back from being shot and having his name was bashed to shaming his enemies. He was also didn’t show favoritism and checked his own friends: A lot of people don’t know, but Pac had some words for Cube (who he knew and looked up to) because Cube joined in the East-West rival after Pac made it famous to do so, but didn’t do rival songs when Pac was in jail. The man’s legacy is as great as it is because he represented many (not just portraying an image that people want to be, but represented the struggle that every black male, or minority, or anybody of any race with life real life struggles faces) and he stuck to his values and beliefs as a soldier of the streets. I’M DONE, but will still read your responses.

    • P-Body

      That is very true about the Ice Cube thing… He did mentioned him in an interview I thought about putting in my next mixtape I make for the site…. Pac wasn’t the first hip hop artist to go platinum but he was the first to go number 1 while in prison and he did go Plat in 1995 while still locked up. Pac was that dude I don’t see how anybody can hate on the man or discredit his work. The thing with Jay-Z and others who was in the rap game at that time they had more time to grow more as artist and see things differently… Pac was unfortunate but at 25 he was really wise and put the effort into being true to himself. Like I said I went to an art school but it was a college I knew damn well I couldn’t pay for but at that time I was 20 and didn’t know what I wanted to do. Anyway what I’m trying to say is that just because a person went to an art school does not make them weak at all because I’m nowhere near weak physically nor mentally. You nailed some good points my dude! *Internet high five* Pac is the greatest

      • A_Daramy

        Yessir. You represented on point too with all of your arguments. The things is with me though that I still get hyped off of all of Pac’s material. So I had to represent because in my opinion no other artist is seeing him and I don’t care which category it is in. His rhymes are not elementary. I don’t know what people are listening to my man, but I hear some advanced lyrics all through his songs. Add that with the thought provoking messages, charisma through the roof, the down to earth connection with the people, and the realest stories (the All Eyez On Me cd is like an entire story telling his life how he was livin it in 96′) and nobody is seeing him.
        Like you and many others, I wish that they would’ve left most of his posthumous releases in their original formats. In my opinion only a few of the re-made songs were better than the originals: Until the End of Time, Thugz Mansion (the one w/ Nas and the one w/ Anthony Hamilton), Smile, and maybe a few others, but even the originals of these were vicious. These original and unreleased songs should really show rap fans how great 2pac was as a rap artist. They’re just pure records without a lot of other things along with them (No autotune for example, lol).

  • KillerKat

    That is a bold statement you’re making in this blog, DuB, and I understand where your opinion is coming from. Honestly though, I can’t help but find most of your statements a bit biased and crass on behalf of Tupac. Of course IMO, there is no “one rapper that is the G.O.A.T.” but Pac was a man and yes he was indeed a martyr.
    I say crass because you mention how he went to a school for performing arts so that cancels out any real street credibility he may have had?! Okay, but where was that school of performing arts? Baltimore. And if I’m not mistaken, Baltimore was at that time (in the mid-late 80′s early 90′s) at a record high for crime activity in black communities, and where do you think Tupac was going home to everyday after school. I certainly don’t think it was the suburbs. He was a child born into a family of black revolutionaries, so regardless of what school you heard he went to, the brotha had a strong sense of standing up for his people and most notably the ones in the struggle, who were mainly the cats on the street corners, hustling to feed their families and so forth, the “thugs” as they’ve come to be known as. See where I’m coming from? I’m not trying to diss you at all, just pointing out things you are clearly overlooking. Tupac is known by many as such a legendary rapper and man because of his resiliency and his strength, which ultimately made him a martyr.
    And as far as his lyricism is concerned, I do agree that his verses can get a bit repetitive but nevertheless his point never failed to hit its mark. He wasn’t the first rapper to start a beef, but the way his unfolded was legendary and can never be redone. He went out on top of his game and that is why he is so romanticized. Nice blog bro, but long live Tupac, a straight up legend.

  • KillerKat

    And for the record I am probably one of the biggest hip hop heads who has commented here so far, so don’t think I’m some “part-time hip hop” listener trying to bash you.

  • ThaTruth

    I am a Huge hardcore 2pac fan but I got to admit that 2pac wasnt as lyrical like biggie , jay z , and nas but he said more things that affected the world and hiphop, political, religion, and many issues that was going around in our streets. Most of your favorite rappers today was influence by 2pac , considering the Tattoos, Movies, Beef, Image and ect. Biggie was more lyrically but 2pac was the first to do anything else that came with the fame and he spoke the truth and on topics people was scared to talk about. Jay Z and Kanye talked about their unborn child on the song called New Day, but 2pac was the first to do a song like that. 2pac laid down the blueprint for a lot of these rappers and if you really wanted to know his marketing plans beyond hiphop then read his diary , Restaurants, Thug Passion Champagne bottles, Movies Scrips that were not yet released and ect. 2pac was revolutionary and g.o.a.t beyond music itself. A lot of people talk about the hood but don,t have the balls to actually fight for it and take it beyond rap music.

  • Ill

    I Just Want To Say That Your Statement About Pac’s Flow Never Changing Is A Lie, Because All Or Most Of His Unreleased Music Such As “Scared Straight” And “My Own Style” Were Different From His Album Music. He Can Be Lyrical When He Wants To Tho Just Listen To The Song “Against All Odds” Or “First 2 Bomb.” I Believe That Pac Is The G.O.A.T. And Yes Im A Hip Hop Head And A Rapper. Check Me Out On Youtube.com/Sub0ification. I Promise It Wont Be A Waste Of Your Time. Thanks

    • P-Body

      Agree and I’ll check out your songs right after I watch this Mayweather vs Ortiz fight! Peace!

  • Erik

    I respect your opinion, but you got some flaws. Like many people when they talk about 2pac in a bad way like they havent done a research or seen 1 of his thousands interviews and documentaries.

    What he have done, all the music he have produced got mad quality, look at the subjects he talks about. Find one that can be compared to that, while others talked about hoes, money, sex and drugs (2pac did that aswell) he talked about others stuffs that others was afraid to do.

    “Yet, people forget that this cat went to a school for the performing arts. Jada Pinkett was his best friend. How hood is that?”

    I think someone here forgot that 2pacs mother was a crack fiend, there was days he lives at friends and outside because his mother couldnt afford an apartment or cloths. And he shared with everything he had, so how much more hood do u want?

    At age of 25, he had 6 albums under his belt, some of them had different styles. (Matw = rawness, deepness, 7 day theory = lyrical rawness, AEOM party and deep album) Tell me one rapper that did that. And dont forget the last year he was alive, he was the biggest of them all. No one was fucking with pac then

    • http://nappyafro.com DuB

      *awaits a cosign from P-Body* (Although I doubt he read anything except the fact that you are a Pac fan)

      • Erik

        Well sad then, because i brought forth solid points. And it would be sad if you couldnt back up your false claims

        • http://nappyafro.com DuB

          Actually your points are not that valid or even that creative. I have already demolished your agrument in previous comments. If you want to see how I been bodying these niggas with that argument, just hit the older comment link. If you come up with an interesting point, I will discuss my point, but until then I have nothing to say.

          • P-Body

            Dub if your arguments was right then everybody would agree to it. You have your opinions just like a lot of us have our opinions. I chose to not debate because I thought this thread was already dead since I moved on. Millions of people love Pac and there is no doubt in that. You can’t get mad because people love Pac more than they love Jay-Z, and Biggie *Even though they are on my list as part of the GOAT’s also*

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            Just like everybody agreed with the abolishment of slavery, MLK, Malcom X, and the fact that the world was round instead of flat. Wait…… that wasn’t the case. History has shown that the fact of being right rarely results in the masses agreeing with you.

            I honestly could care less about who has more notoriety. More people know who Vanilla Ice is than J. Cole and Phonte. Doesn’t mean Mr. Ice Ice Baby is better, does it?

            If you say no, then your argument is dead, if you say yes then you lose your credibility as a Hip Hop fan.

          • Reason

            But you’re comparing apples to oranges the world being flat or not was a matter of science this is a matter of creativity & art a completely different subject so its a broken pencil argument pointless

          • P-Body

            You’re right about the Vanilla Ice thing, well then again kids these days don’t even have a clue on who Vanilla Ice is. I can’t lie I use to like Ice Ice Baby back in the day until I got older and realized how wack that shit was. Phonte & Cole murder Ice any day. Same thing can be said about Nelly being better because he sold more records… But like I said it’s opinions and I can’t stand Nelly by the way. Pac reached me more than any other rapper ever did in my entire life ever since I been listening to hip hop. Even though you have your points and I have mine, it still don’t change my view on Pac. I’m a Pac fan until I’m dead. No matter what you or anybody say I’ll always ride with Pac. You have some people that think Lil B or Lil Boosie is the greatest rapper ever, which baffles me. If an artist is able to reach a person in a major way then so be it I guess. Pac was beyond hip hop though

          • Erik

            Well calling 2pac not “hood” makes your other arguements invalid. He lived a tougher life than Jay and Biggie.

          • http://nappyafro.com DuB

            You can youtube videos about him talking about growing up in middle class. If middle class is “hood” fine then you would be right.

          • P-Body

            Dub when did Pac grow up in a Middle Class neighborhood?? Dude you are reaching with that one. Dude was poor as hell. He use to wear the same clothes a lot and he said the only way he could escape is by going to school and performing on stage. If anybody know about Pac I definitely do.

          • Erik Udd

            If you have “bodied all these people” Go back to Chris comment. “The problem with the author’s article is that its main argument rises on pure supposition and speculation. While it can be debatable if Pac was the greatest (an arbitrary claim) the author states an opinion that cannot be judged as fact. Therefore, it’s an argument that holds no grounds. Someone stated that Pac died at the tender age of 25 and was still maturing – we’ll I agree; he had accomplished more at that age than anyone before him – so any comparisons with other rappers that grew and got older – is irrelevant.” 

            U got kind a silenced with that one huh? Stop dickride Jay man

  • http://nappyafro.com DuB

    Sigh* I thought this finally died.

    • Clay Davis

      Respect to Dub for this article again, it’s interesting how anyone who disliked Tupac or thought he was overrated haven’t commented but probably don’t want to get trolled

  • Erik

    “DuB September 26, 2011 at 6:08 pm -
    You can youtube videos about him talking about growing up in middle class. If middle class is “hood” fine then you would be right.”

    U better back up your claims, i have otherwise seen documentaries and read a book about him called “Tupac Shakur: The Life and Times of an American Icon”. And funny thing u mention jada pinkett and no hood in the same sentence.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD_OhK53W5w&feature=related

    4.16

    U have to step your game son, get your facts right.

    • P-Body

      Real shit right there Erik. “Who Do U Believe In” is so damn ill… I mean I like just about everything Pac made but that one song alone was deep and just on another level.

  • A_Daramy

    I have to say that when you (Dub) and others are comparing Pac to other rappers (especially the ones that were around when he was alive) it’s only right that you compare their material from 96 and before. Which means all of Pac’s albums from Makaveli and before as well as all of the original and unreleased material that are on this site. He was way ahead of his time and nobody was seeing him during his time (my opinion). And you can tell from his music and interviews that he was only getting better and growing as a person. His rap lyrics and in-person interviews were full of real talk (every verse).
    A lot of people consider “Illmatic” to be a great album, which I agree. But whether it (or other albums from around that time) are better than Pac’s, is a matter of opinion. To me no other rapper’s lyrics are better because none are realer and invoke as much emotion, energy, and inspiration as Pac’s. Below are just some of the songs that I wanted to take Pac’s lyrics from, but I can list more all day because every song made a point and gave pure game.
    1
    “Is it the miniature caskets, little babies/ victims of a stray from drug dealers gone crazy/ maybe it’s just the drugs/ visions of how the block was/ crack came and it was strange how it rocked us/ perhaps the underlying facts they hide/ explain genocide/ it’s when we ride on our own kind/ what is it we all fear/ reflections in the mirror/ we can’t escape fate, the end is gettin’ nearer/” – Tupac: Who do you believe in.
    2
    “Memories of adolescent years, there was unity/ but after puberty/ we brought war to our community/ so many bodies dropin’, it’s gotta stop, I wanna help/ but still I’m steppin, keep my weapon, must protect myself/ the promise of a better tomorrow, ain’t never reach me/ plus my teachers were too petrified in class to teach me/ sippin’ thunderbird and grape kool aid, callin’ earl/ since my stomach was empty, it seduced me to f*** the world/ – Tupac: Never be peace (original).
    3
    “Ain’t shed a tear since the old school years of elementary/ Niggas I used to love, enclosed in penitentiaries/ But still/ homie keep it rea/ how does it feel/ to lose your life over somethin’ that you did as a kid/ you all alone/ no communication, block on the phone/ don’t get along with yo pops, and plus your moms is gone/ where did we go wrong/ I put my soul in this song/ to help us grow in time, but now our minds is gone/ we went from brothas and sistas, to niggas and b*****/ we went from welfare livin’ to world wide riches/ but somethin’ changed/ in this dirty game, everything’s strange/ lost all my homies over cocaine/ man/ – Tupac: When thugs cry
    4
    “My family tree consists of drug dealers, thugs, and killers/ strugglin’, known to hustle, screaming f*** they feelings/ I got advice from my father, all he told me was this/ nigga, get off yo ass if you plan to be rich/ there’s ten rules to the game, but I’ll share wit u two/ know, niggas gone hate you for whatever you do/ Now rule one, get yo cash on M.O.B./ that’s, money over b*****, cuz they breed envy/ Now rule two is a hard one, watch for phonies/ keep your enemies close nigga, watch yo homies/ it seemed a little unimportant, when he told I’d smile/ picture jewels being handed to an innocent child/ I never knew in my lifetime, I’d live by these rules/ initiated as an outlaw, studying rules/ Now papa ain’t around, so I gotta recall/ or come to grips wit being written on my enemies wall/ promise if I have a seed, I’m a guide him right/ dear Lord, don’t let me die tonight/ I got words for my comrades, listen and learn/ ain’t nuttin’ free, get back what you earn/ (no doubt) getting’ high than a mother****** bless me please/ this thug life will be the death of me/ – Tupac: Blasphemy

    • P-Body

      Erik scratch my comment, I meant to write it to A_Daramy. I’m tired as hell and didn’t realize I wrote the reply to the wrong comment. A_Daramy dope verses you quoted. I don’t see how people even try to diss Pac writing skills

      • Erik

        No problems mate. Could you do me a favor? I cant manage to download 2Pac – Unreleased & Original (Compilation Vol. ) [Mixtape] 1& 4. Can you upload them somewhere else?

      • A_Daramy

        I agree man, people learn from his lyrics and he has the rawest lyrics, so nobody should sleep on them. But most importantly, people learn from his lyrics. Take for instance “Against All Odds”. People listen closely to the lyrics in the song (almost study the lyrics) to understand his perspective on the 94 studio incident and the characters involved. Not to mention songs like “They Don’t Give A F*** About Us” where he not only tells you how it is, but also how it will end up if things don’t change.
        _
        So I understand why you (P-Body) are ridin’ with Pac 4 life. Because he was real to you, and me, and millions of others. People who say he ain’t real need to check their goggles. A lot of people these days are lookn up to people who could care less about them. But we should judge people by their character.
        _
        (This is for the side argument) If Pac said he was a thug, why do people want to say he was lyin. He was a lot of things, including a thug. He wasn’t perfect, but give him credit for not being the type of person who lied to your face, just to get your money (which a lot of rappers do. Yeah these rappers gotta get paid, but Pac was not that person). If that was not his character, then don’t make those claims. The only thing I can say he *might* have lied about is the thing with Faith. (But that was part of his strategy in his beef with BIG,but who knows). But here is a video that shows the character of Pac: when he shot the two off duty officers in butts (lol), he did it (first of all he didn’t know they were officers) and second they were harassing a dude on the street. Pac stood up for him. What rappers yall claim to be the greatest does things like this?
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUBw3DzYDNk
        _
        Anyway, Pac’s gift of being real was God given. Acknowledge him as he was: a gift from God. We wish he was still here, because he was truly a gift from God who was on the path of making the world a better place (don’t doubt it, or hate it). Recognize it. No hard feelings with Dub (I know we teamed up on him). You expressed a valid opinion about the greatest emcee’s being lyrical, but to say that Pac was not lyrical is NOT valid. Dude has mad rhymes from 96′ that top any rapper’s today (main reason: because people feel the lyrics. Talent without love is irrelevant. And that’s in the Bible). People love Pac, because they can feel the love in his songs.

        • P-Body

          @Erik
          Yeah when I get more time I’ll upload the volumes again for you!

          @A_Daramy
          You can’t forget about “High Speed” and “Fortune & Fame”, those two were some ill verses from Pac also…. People be sleeping on dude just because he wasn’t the type to use these big words and metaphors. But in interviews you can clearly see how smart he was and I honestly think he could be lyrical if he wanted to but chose not to be especially when he got on Death Row. Pac was the realest thing in music to me and I still feel that way now as a grown man.

  • Erik

    Great we know your opinion now DuB. But 2pac has the crown of G.O.A.T. And it shouldnt be up for argumentation

    • Rickjamesbitch

      Woah, if someone is thought of us the GOAT then there can always be arguments against them, no one’s untouchable. There are several rappers who are much better than Pac. Nas, Common, Andre 3k, Eminem, Lupe and several others are clearly better rappers and touch on the same subjects.

      • Erik

        Yeah I know. But this TS made me upset, because he is clearly ignorant facts and got lots of flaws in his article. Even tho I started to listen to hip-hop seriously for some years ago. I prefer the old rappers, even tho I like new ones like Lupe, the game, cham, ti etc. Those you mentioned, they are up for discussion. But you have to look at the quality material he dropped during those short years. And did lots of emotional songs with deep content that not many rappers dit at that time. And now, everyone wants to jump at the 2pac wagon.

      • Erik

        And there is those who only thinks lyrics is everything. So thats why the have Big Pun, Biggie, Jay, Nas as their goat. And when they say”i can name 10 bettr MC’s than pac” they mention other lyricly people, cannibus, lupe fiasco, black thought, big l. So if you look at the complete picture, 2pac is in the lead.

        • Rickjamesbitch

          Nah man I now lyrics aren’t everything but those guys can be lyrical and make emotional songs like Pac. Lupe has songs like Hurt Me Soul and Hip Hop Saved My Life that are very inspirational or thought provoking. Nas and Common also make songs like that, all 3 of these guys are better lyricists than Pac. So if you’re a better lyricst, your flow is better, and you can make songs that are just as emotional, doesn’t that make you the better rapper?

          • P-Body

            The way Pac brought it was different though and nobody didn’t rap like him before him. You can see his influence in the rap game nowadays and he is still talked about now. He is very important in hip hop. People forget at the age of 21 he was speaking at conferences like the new black panthers and so forth, Pac was on some other level shit for real. I like Lupe, Nas (One of my top 5 emcees), Black Thought, Phonte, and so forth but Pac caught me way back in the day when he was alive. I liked Biggie too when he was alive but Pac was just more raw and his voice was very powerful. He probably have one of the best voices I heard that is strong and can get his point across without being some complex to where it is boring & turn people off. Kinda like Mic Geronimo, he was a good emcee as far as lyrics but he was boring as hell and his 2nd album sucked badly! I hate that I even heard that CD a long time ago. I thought it was going to be good since he featured Jay-Z on their and other rappers who was hot in the late 90′s.

          • A_Daramy

            Good point Rickjames. I would answer the question you asked with a yes if these artists could make songs as emotional and heart felt as Pac. But in my opinion NO OTHER Rapper brings it like Pac. Like P-Body said: the way Pac brought it was different. There’s something about things that are real, that make them hard to explain. (Say for instance the greatness of God, but yet He is not physically seen) But to try to explain it: Pac is real to me because his actions, words, emotions, voice tones, all match in his songs as well as outside of the studio. When Pac was hyped, you FELT that in his songs. When he was angry you FELT that in his songs.
            _
            Lupe’s “Hurt Me Soul” is nice as s*** and it’s deep. But it (and other artists songs) are not as heartfelt as “White Manz World”, ” “Hail Mary”, “When Thugz Cry”, “Brenda’s Gotta Baby” “Keep Ya Head Up”, “Changes” “They Don’t Give a F*** About Us (original)”, “Again’st All Odds”, “Dear Mama”, “Life’s So Hard (original)” “The Good Die Young” “Thug Luv”, “Ambitionz as a Ridah”, “No More Pain” “When We Ride on Our Enemies”, “Pain”, “I Ain’t Mad At Cha”
            _
            Now I gotta ask you: Can you honestly say that there are other artists who bring it with real lyrics and emotions that you feel like this? If so, let it be known.
            _
            Also Lupe’s words are lyrical (especially on that track) and other artists (Nas, Common, and others are lyrical), but Pac was lyrical too. You got to remember that he was gettn better and better before his passing in 96′ and I can honestly see him being as lyrical as Lupe’s “Heal Me Soul”. The flow kinda sounds like’s Pac’s on the song too. No, Lupe is not biting, but you gotta remember that Hip Hop builds on it’s history.
            _
            If you want to hear Pac being lyrical back in 96′ check out unreleased tracks on this site: “Untouchable’s” ft. Bad Azz, Snoop, Outlawz, “Grab the Mic (Starin’ thru My Rearview II”, “Immortal”, and “Only Move for the Money” ft. Daz..
            _
            Also a great example of a heartfelt Pac song is the unreleased “Reincarnation”. Full with real lyrics, emotions, and pure game (check out his commentary at the end of the track). Not to mention the lyrical skills (whoooo, listenin’ to it right now… great points in every line…feel every word).

  • Erik

    Word to mother

  • greenin

    Three words my friend: Nothin’. To. Lose. Respect the man. As far as your performing arts school statement….yep…true…in Baltimore. You ever been? Oh…it’s lax man. For somebody who “created a persona” he sure as hell was able to articulate it clearer and more aggressively than anyone prior or since. Listen to Nothin’ to Lose. Although this may sound hateresque…it is. Respect the greatest.

  • Practical

    This shit is just not even worth responding to. I didn’t even read this shit until just now and I just skimmed it. Nobody ever should’ve dignified this shit with a response…look how big it got.

  • Prescott Music

    No matter what your dumbass says DUB that fact of the matter is your still bringing up his name. Now im not saying all but most any rappers that are out today that are making hits will say that Pac was an influence on them. So you can site here an diss one of the most influential rapper of all time but what it boils down to is the rap game would not be what it is today with out him. So say what you want but the facts are in your face.

  • Myemail

    If being recognized in the Guinness Book of World Records as the highest-selling
    hip hop artist, with over seventy five million albums sold worldwide,
    including over fifty million in the United States, doesn’t make you the G.O.A.T.      ….. please explain to me what does ???? 

  • TupacForever

    HE WENT TO SCHOOL FOR PREFORMING ARTS WITH COCAINE MONEY. he had a terrible background. R U Fking kidding me? he was almost born in prison, if you listen to dear mama, he recaps his whole childhood. So yes he was REAL a lot more real than you (in a perspective stance) you would not have eminem, or jay-z, or biggie, or half of the rap game if it wasnt for tupac. No one buying his records if he were still alive? people were buying his records by the dozen when he was alive, even if the media portrayed him as a mad black man, and how would you know how his future life would turn out? and ummm biggie is a martyr, his fanbase is almost as large as tupac’s if not larger.  His rap may have sound repetitive, but the feel was different on every song, it doesnt matter how repetitive his words are, jay-z has sounded the same scince 1997 and he is one of the top selling artists in the world currently. Tupac had the ability to relate with everyone who listened to his music. He was the greatest of all time or ever will be. and yes you did SHIT on a legend and frankly if you were saying this in public i may as well have shot you then drove off. MAD RESPECT FOR TUPAC. oh by the way its not emcee, its MC.  and wayne does not even belong in the breath or sight of tupac and furthermore on this blog. tupac greatest ever. RIP Tupac Amaru Shakur  

  • Jsn_1993

    2Pac dropped knowledge through his music and INTERVIEWS. A few rappers do the same but Pac has always set a  mark to outshine. ‘I’m not saying i’m gonna change the world, but I guarantee I will spark the brain that will change the world’. His lyrics have always been deep to the extent where you actually sit and wonder to yourself woah, he’s making you look at life from a different perception. I mean few rappers can do this but Pac always stood out.

  • Josh

    What people don’t realize is that pac finished the entire double album all eyes on me in 2 weeks, he finishedhis next album in 7 days, and only 3 of those day was he recording, most of his songs he wrote, laid down and finished in less than 15 mins and thats including the writing. Ambitions as a rida was wrote,laid down,and finished in less than 10 mins. His best was yet to come, he was in a hurry to finish his 3 album contract, then start his own label and really take his time on a project.. If you know the history you can’t know the quality of his lyrics and music when you learn how many songs he was doing a day

    • P-Body

      Also he recorded a lot of songs during those times also and songs he took off those albums. He was a beast, I miss Pac

      • Josh

        Truly, all rappers they rank above him spend years on albums. PAC was finishing entire albums in less than a weak.and still had hits . Name one other rapper who could ever do that. At times he was laying down 7 songs a day. Knowing that,you can’t possibly say he was overated. Most every other rapper takes years on just one album, and only after the age of 25 do they really start laying down hits. pacs hits were yet to come, he hadn’t even came close to peaking yet and just imagine him taking a year on an album instead of just one weak. There is no denying he is in the top 3 and is in no way oeverated if you actually know the history, 10 mins a song is unheard of

  • Rose Before Hoes 23

    I know I’m 7 months late, I have no idea how I came across this but I just had to put my 2 cents in. He wasn’t lyrical? Didn’t have a flow? Go listen to tracks like Me Against the World, Old School, If I Die Tonight, Only God Can Judge Me, Holla At Me, Hail Mary, Me and My Girl Friend, Got My Mind Made Up (outshines meth, red man, and kurupt, who are all considered “lyrical”),Changes, and many more. The dude had the widest subject matter ever, good flow and lyrics and I can care less f you disagree because the Majority seems to share my opinion. He also had the best voice (very deep and smooth), and like what everyone else loves, made soul music. You say that rappers should only be talked about for their music, yet you bring up the school and thug life. I bet you didn’t know that his tuition at the baltimore school of arts was paid by the panthers.If he wasn’t real then he wouldn’t have any business shooting two off duty cops because they were attacking another black man. He was the total package when it comes to music. Music is all an opinion, and there are more opinions out there that consider him the GOAT. Make a greatest hits album for BIG, Jay, Nas, Em, or anyone else, and it won’t fuck with Pac’s Greatest Hits album. I was alive when all of this was going down, and no one and I mean NO ONE was fucking with this dude 95-96. No one has ever dominated the rap game like that, 50 Cent came close in 02-03 but that’s about it. Like Nas said, “Will there ever be an emcee as nice? or will you return like the ressurection of Christ?”

  • Mr. Jones

    My feelings on Pac are, yes, he wasn’t the most consistent album maker, or lyrically dense. But since when does great structure = great art. Nas has about two or three albums i can make it all the way through anymore, and all of these stans come rushing to push Pac down. Tupac wasn’t structurally nearly the best MC, but when it came to conveying true emotion in music, Pac is one of the best.  Thats why a lot of people view him as one of the best, and he’s at least in my top 10.

  • Reason

    I know I’m really late (Outkast brought me here…) but to resolve every thing in the words of Nas “Who’s the best Pac, Nas and B.I.G.? Ain’t no best”

  • Biggdell

    the guy who said this sounds real dumb as far his knowledge on pac.

  • Jjpst

    This article is a waste of a read.  Whether or not you think he’s the greatest of all time, the details here are inaccurate, and blurred.  

  • Novakane

    You forgotten 1 thing tho – Pac didnt had a flow, You dont need one when you sing from your soul (*)

    2Pac was, is, will be the greatest who ever touched a mic. period.

    THUG LIFE 4 EVER

  • http://twitter.com/jaye_greene Jay Greene

    People look at me crazy when I don’t have Big or Pac in my top 5 (Rakim, Face, Nas, Jay, & 3000 fyi). I respect both of them, but I also blame them for the bullshit era we got after. Unfair, but that’s just how I feel.

  • DJ Meek

    Dear author,
    you have zero credibility in the future. That is all.

  • Dis Guy

    I disagree. 2Pac’s music is incredible. I hate ppl saying he couldn’t flow. Theres plenty of songs where he flexed that muscle. I think the reason we don’t realize it is because he was more concerned with putting a message into his music. Check: All About You, I Get Around, Whatz Ya Phone #, Something Wicked, Scared Straight,& Let Them Thangs Go; and tell me he can’t flow! I’m sorry. 2Pac and Biggie are the greatest to ever live, despite the hype. RIP

  • TUPAC THE GOAT

    this dude obviously is not a Pac fan. Tupac could rap party, battle, to the females, club, songs and so forth. Which is why he was so successful and the reason why those east coast cats that try to spit a wholee dictionary in every 16 dont sell. People dont always want to hear shit they cant even repeat. But I assure you Pac challenged all of your favorite 90as emcees that were around and none of them wanted none. Not Jay z, Not Nas, Not Biggie, because they knew what he was capable of. That dude could beat them at their own styles. Do your home work Pac was a reader with a long vocabulary and could adjust to anybody he was on a track with. Plus he was only 25 and a lot of what we got was after he was gone so he didnt even peak. Jay z was way better at 30 than at 25 and so on and so forth….Pac could rap as deep as nas, as gangsta as biggie, as fly as Jay Z…And he had them dudes by the nuts when he was a life. Go listen to the man instead of making ridiculous claims. You sound like you work for funk master flex…lol Joke article

  • TTOG

    ALL U SO CALLED RAP FANS TALKING BOUT PAC WASNT THE BEST OR IF HE WAS ALIVE HE WASNT THE BEST OR WATEVA. MUST UNDERSTAND THAT NO MC HAS THE LYRICAL DEPTH AND MEANING THAT PAC HAD. AND HIS SKILLS WERE GROWING SO IF HE WAS ALIVE TODAY HE WOULD BE THE GREATEST IN RAP MUSIC LYRICLY I HAVE NO DOUBT. IF YOU TAKE ONE SENTENCE WHICH CAN BE ONE BAR IN MUSIC ,THAT CAN HAVE 10 DIFFERENT MEANINGS THAT SOMEONE NOTICES RIGHT AWAY. THAT IS WHAT I MEAN BY LYRICAL DEPTH. IF I SPIT ONE BAR -10 WORDS FOR EXAMPLE THAT ARE POLITICALY CORRECT,CAN RELATE TO A CONVICT ,A JUDGE , A SOCCER MOM, A COP ,A BLACK MAN, A WHITE MAN ,AND A TROUBLED TEEN AND SO ON THEN MY WORDS ARE PUT TOGETHER IN A WAY FOR WHICH HIP HOP TRULY INTENDED.THE BIBLE IS WRITTEN IN VERSES AND ONE VERSE CAN HOLD THE MEANING OF A WHOLE BOOK .PAC HIT THE STREETS AS WELL AS HIGH SOCIETY AND WAS THE SAME THUG IN HIS MUSIC.WHEN U LISTEN TO HIP HOP/RAP AND YOU GOT LOVE FOR WHAT YOU HEAR THATS ONE THING BUT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY FEEL THE WORDS TO A SONG EMOTIONALLY THEN YOU HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE SOUL OF MUSIC.THINK ABOUT THAT. LIKE THE 49ERS WERE THE TEAM OF THE 80s , PAC WAS THE RAPPER OF THE 90s -WHICH WAS THE REALEST MOST INFLUENTAL DECADE OF RAP- HIP HOP HISTORY.

  • Da Chairman

    Pac wasn’t lyrical…with that you lose all credibility. Lyricism isn’t just about metaphors, punchlines, alliteration, etc. It’s also about conveying an idea or emotion through your verses, something that Pac ddi better than pretty much anyone. Pac’s has timeless classics Trapped, Brenda’s Got A Baby, Changes, Keep Your Head Up, Dear Mama, Lord Knows, and so on and so forth. Please just stop.

  • OutLawMobFigure

    your out of your fucking mind , you obviously are a hater thinkinking you know some facts when there just coming from a jelious biggie fan , hater. oh and just because he went to an acting school does not mean you cant be thug its called being real following your dream even if your selling drugs , rapping doing whatever. he wasnt afraid of being himself. 2pac forever

  • ARBZ

    FUCK YOU 2PAC THE GREATEST

  • illd

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. So let me say mine – I don’t think any of the writer’s points were valid. In-fact, his article comes across as someone who was a hater, or just ignorant to the music he was producing. I think the term ‘lyrical’ has evolved into something else as there are different emcees or rappers to redefine the term. The term had been used to describe an emcee with a certain delivery, and way of saying rhymes. Did you even hear Makaveli The Don? Or are you basing your opinion on his commercial success and content? His main motive was to touch on social issues and uplift people out of poverty and hard times by getting them to think differently. He didn’t just simply make songs for the clubs. He only did it as part of the business and marketing side. His over-all plan was to be political and to get a political party. Rap was simply a means as to was the movies. If he really wanted to rap for the money he would have stayed doing movies but he was doing both! If that isn’t a talent then I don’t know what is. It was bigger than rap with Tupac. He was a poet first and had to sell him self to the world as a rapper and actor to achieve his overall plan. Plus he had been shot and set up by people in the entertainment business who he thought were his friends i.e. King Tut, Haitian Jack and Jimmy Henchmen. There were people who were intimidated by him within the music industry and this was before he started to send fire to rappers who were fake i.e. just rapping for money, girls, clothes and cars. He was a leader – so it was beyond being lyrical because every lyricist or your definition of it is at the end of the day still a rapper as the two are one in the same. And Tupac grew up in poverty with the Black Panthers. Is that not real? What is your definition of real. Who every hired you to write for this website should be held responsible for your ridiculous claims and opinions. Its one thing to disrespect a legend, someone who was bigger than music especially at the age of 25, but it is another to do so without really thinking it through. I think you are just trying to get attention with such an article and congratulations – you’ve done so because I don’t normally blog. To not consider Pac as the best of all time is just hate on your end and stupidity. I say that because every rapper tries to distinguish themselves differently from others which Pac had done. His delivery method was different and did the job, which was to communicate to the masses. It also put fear in the hearts of many rappers. He was a teacher – no matter how you teach as long as you get the message across – you’ve done your job. Is their a guide as to how to teach? Is there a guide as to how to rap? Tupac spit 16′s and had well thought out choruses which done professionally at that as he repeats the chorus twice three times in every song and then again 4 times at the end in most of his songs. He was a professional if you want to look at it like that. And his albums sold were a reflection of how far out he was reaching. How many rappers could go tour and capture audiences worldwide like Tupac? How many lyricists? Not too many and even if they could, I doubt they have a following like Pac – I have the opportunity to travel to many places all across the world as part of work and everywhere you go – they are still listening to Tupac more than any other rapper.

  • Devon Jones

    CUZ YOU NEED TO TAKE DIS SHIT OFF THE INTERNET DA FUCK IS YOU TALKIN BOUT?!?!

  • gustav

    so happy someone finally had the balls to say what we’re all thinking.

  • keepit100

    this is the most retarded article I have ever read seriously, I’m not here to dickride. But you have no idea what you are talking about. People got the rap game all confused!! They think in order to be “good” u have to spit versatile, and altho that is a piece of the pie, it is not what makes an artist great! It’s about connecting with people, speaking the truth, spitting from the heart, and connecting with the end listener! Sure many rappers are more “Versatile” and leave behind a craft that influences up and coming MC’s but what is more important at the end of the day, having IMPACT on someones everyday life, or influencing some MC with your rap skills? That’s is what made 2Pac great, he had the IMPACT, that is why rappers like NAS or Tech N9ne altho more skilled, will NEVER compare to 2Pac, because IMPACT is FAR GREATER than influence. 2Pac was the shit when he was alive, he was the shit when he was dead, that’s the truth. Pac never sold out, and kept it 100, real relate to his stuff. There is more to being a quality music artist, than just spitting bars, that is just one element of hip hop. If you can connect with your listener, make music that will last forever, and still millions of records even after you are dead, you are a legend in my book. Pac had some dope albums while alive, how are you going to say he only blew up when he died? Shoot yourself Son!! You got the whole point of hip hop all twisted if you think being versatile is the only thing that qualifies you to be a great rapper!!

  • Johnny

    This article is retarded in every sense of the word.

  • s_Un

    so it took him a long time to polish this article huh…dude obviously isn’t much of a writer. First of all, saying Pac’s flow was repetitive and juvenile is INSANE. The guy created another melody line to accompany the beats with his voice. Was he the greatest technical rapper no, but I’ll be damned if he wasn’t a great lyricist. Not to mention, he could crank out a classic album in a week when it takes other guys years. Also, saying little wayne is a better lyricist just made me seriously laugh really hard out loud. Just compare Me and my Girlfriend to that song wayne did doing the same metaphor of a girl and a gun and laugh your ass off. Lil wayne is garbage, dude raps like hes got a finger up both of his nostrils. Also, saying that 2Pac wouldn’t be much nowadays if he had lived is ridiculous. I don’t see how a guy with that much popularity and persona who never sold out could have faded. Of course, that load of crap is only an opinion that I strongly disagree with, and I’m sure that guy will completely disagree with me but damn man if you want to strike 2Pac down you better give song references to explain your lyrical stance and there better be a lot of them. Plus that “real” reference to attending the performing arts school is such a joke. You show your complete idiocy by making that statement. I think if you really feel 2Pac isn’t close to the greatest of all time you need to bring a much better supporting argument. This definitely was written by a guy who thinks Lil Wayne is better than 2Pac, most likely comes from the backwoods of Mississippi where they can’t even spell the name of their own state.

  • http://twitter.com/heidy1suga Hęîdÿ✨

    I think this was the most stupid article i have ever. Read. Sit down please

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Destin-Banks/100001590163663 Destin Banks

    Slim u most be a youngin cause u obviously dont understand how popular pac was when alive. And his music then is better than these trash ass niggaz out now aint no question about it. U didnt see a gang of rap niggaz addin biggie verses to they tracks when big died but to this day niggaz is still pressed for a pac joint. And fuk u mean he wouldnt have been as big now if still alive. The nigga was damn near a grammy caliber actor, if not for death he wouldnt even be rappin now he would have been into politics and actingand only dropping an album every 5 years(thats wat he said his plan was)

  • Max

    dumbass author doesn’t know the difference between emcee and MC and shouldn’t be writing articles. 2pac is the best of all time cus he DOESN’T make bullshit pop music that you want him to and he makes music for reasons he wants. damn this article is fucking pretentious and dumb.

  • Max

    When Tupac was alive he wasn’t considered this great man, he was just another rapper with a troubled back ground.

    wtf are you talking about, he had the biggest double album sale in history u ignorant fuck!

  • http://twitter.com/SauleWright Saule Wright

    Article from 2011 STILL has the innannets goin nuts.

  • Sam Stout

    “Hail Mary” is by far not pac’s greatest lyrical song… and you obviously have some bias and choose not to like him which is fine.. Whats lyrical? you need to define that first..I’ll give you some insight.. Just because an emcee flips words and uses multiple syllables doesnt mean he is lyrical. Word usage, meaning, emotion makes a good lyricist..if that person happens to use the multi syllable style then cool.. but pacs delivery was strong and raw.. he also didnt stick to a format for his flow..he let the beat dictate his flow which is why he was able to rap over the many different beats he had..to name a few; Thug Luv, Whats your phone #, song from G’ridlockd…those tempos were unconventional not many rappers could have pulled those off… you might like Nas.. i do as well but i believe he is vastly overrated.. Ya’ll kill with who is a lyricist and who isn’t.. I can name R&B singers/writers who are better lyricist than most rappers..Also pac utilized the whole gamut of english structure and expression…similies, parables, pun.. alliteration.. metaphors…most rappers only tap metaphors.. Biggies line “i leave the fucka, coughin up blood, and his pockets like rabbit ears”…..isnt a line pac wouldve wrote. would you suggest that line is better than “they planted a seed, and it hatched sparkin a flame, inside my head like a match, such a dirty game”…you should be ashamed to put lil wayne up there as his songs have literally no direction..He comes up with some creative word play but when your agenda is different dont have time to do that foolish and wasteful tactic. Big Pun was a syllable killer…didnt make sense at times as well but great flow. Emotion runs us all homie so when an artist cant tap that they’ll never win no matter how creative they get with meaningless words… As talented as Pac was he could have done that but different man different mission.. and you can hear how he played with syllables on his songs if you listen…just his cadence and delivery was like poetry to music.. if you take his lyrics and deliver it differently there are plenty of syllables there for you people who wish he flowed like biggie.. another overrated artist.. if you were talking wordplay and metaphors.. i see you left out eminem. but look your either calling 100million people dumb who bought his albums and others who hold pac up in great esteem or you just dont wanna really delve into the specifics in which your trying to present.. Look jay z is great mc…better than Biggie i might add, but he rarely tapped into emotion..at times he has but thats how dope Jay z is…When artist tap that they are considered rap Gods..then there are those who are good with words.. very creative.. even some of the freestyle dudes but it doesnt make them better than Jay z for instance..jay z is very creative so it Pac…listen intently..”They say pussy is paper, poetry, power, and pistols”….break that down..very deep son…better than syllabic babble…Easy

  • Swinny

    Pac was never the greatest lyricist but as an overall package(talking about the bigger picture here) he WAS and STILL IS one of the greatest. The passion the man had, the drive, the motivation, the will to push forward no matter what, its contagious! And for that alone, for inspiring millions, he deserves all the praise he gets.

  • realnigga

    Listen to Only fear of death and you will understand why 2pac was the greatest rapper/poet ever to born , every word he wrote was WORD OF WISDOM YOU TRICK ASS MOTHA FUCKA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • realnigga

    2pAC WAS THE REALEST NIGGA IN THE GAME EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT every BIG RAPPER ADMITS 2PAC WAS THE GOAT YOU WHORE

  • Amadeo

    This is the most stupid article I have read in years. Wasted my fcking time like crazy with a bunch of naive propositions. You should really learn more into the guy and listen more to his music to get better premises for you arguments. You literally sound like a fag ass fck spitting shit.

  • Fads

    The man had heart…. If he was alive and got past this west/east coast stuff he would have brought truth to people’s ears…. Damn shame he died…. Doesn’t matter how you dissect his raps…. Would rather listen to his stuff than any other nonsense out there…. You might have better flow than him or lyrics but if counts for nothing when your chatting shit

  • HUNTERCNK80Q3

    well all i know is no matter what the best of the best is and always will forever be and will stay in that position is 2pac even i was alive i rekon he’s still be number 1. 1 more thing these new rappers and hip hop boys who think their better than 2pac their clearly not they are the fucking clueless bastards who sold their soul and think they are better 2pac was a natural born who made himself not like jew sons of bitches.

  • Trinidad Jame$

    daaam this nigga done popped a molly before he wrote this wooo

  • gtfo

    1. You dont know what thug life means. it’s not thug (crook etc). you should research what Pac meant by saying thug life. that’s the problem with people, they believe what mainstream media said about Pac, they misunderstood what Thug Life is.

    2. Hail Mary is best 2pac song from lyrical point??? give me a break.

    3. If Biggie had died before Pac, he wouldn’t be considered as a martyr. While in the rap game he didnt have any problems, or not as many as Pac had. Pac was crucified by the media, shot 5 times, went to jail etc.

    He was very popular when he was alive, one of the most popular rapper at that time. And when he died, he made sure to maintain that position even from the grave. He recorded material that was released after his death till this day.

  • g00sey

    the best lyracist/goat ?no. but dude was real, and a poet. a voice and delivery that engaged and captivated. dude poured his soul, right, wrong or indifferent on wax. Is the reviewer under 30? While not the best you’re really shitting on a significant and transcendent kat that effected the game. Thought you were dead on with the MCHG review however.

  • Barış Özer

    You lost me and I am sure countless others at hello with this article bra! I get you are trying to strike nerves with a provocative title like “2pac should never be considered the GOAT,” but who are you to say that he should never be considered, Fidel Castro. Your claim that you are not being disrespectful is an oxymoron because the title of your article is more disrespectful than anything you would have said in the article itself. “Never” really?

    You clearly don’t know 2pac’s entire catalog if you think Hail Mary was his greatest lyrical song in the first place, that’s one of many and it was a radio song. Since when did radio songs represent the most lyrical songs an artist has ever made? “Troublesome 96″ and “Blasphemy” is even more lyrical. I’ll even take “Death Around the Corner,” or “Me and My girlfriend” and many others over “Hail Mary,” and no there aren’t too many Jay Z, Nas, Biggie, Eminem, Big Pun, or Big L songs that are better than these songs. 2pac’s lyrical ability will always be questioned by people who small mindedly think lyrical ability is only wordplay and being able to rhyme big words and execute complex thoughts like Eminem does. That’s the real misconception. By this definition, Eminem and Big Pun and those like them would be the greatest rappers of all time.

    On top of all that, the fact that Pac got bigger after his death than when he was alive is bullshit and perception and not fact. He was already a multi-platinum artist before dying with Me Against the World, and All Eyes on Me and he had already done 3 Hollywood films that came out in the Theatres, which no rapper had done at that time. 2pac was a worldwide icon smart guy and he was already the biggest rap star of all time before his death, his death only amplified it. If he was still alive, he would have hit his prime at 25. Last time I checked, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Jay Z, Big Pun wasn’t even who everyone now recognizes as them as being at 25. 2pac’s last album Makaveli was his best album lyrically so his style was clearly growing and diversifying.

    2pac is the greatest of all time because he was a complete Hip-Hop Artist (lyrical ability, song writing, diversified sound, voice, delivery, artistry, presentation, acting, consciousness, realness, political awareness, etc.). I could go on and on about this but why try. Majority of the world already feels that way. So either hundreds of millions of people are bamboozled or the haters and the naysayers such as yourself are and I’ll take the ladder. Let me guess your favorite rapper of all time is Jay Z? At this point, I really don’t care.

    B.A.

  • Barış Özer

    Like 2pac said bra “Niggaz talk a lot of shit after I am gone, cause they fear me in the physical form.” RIP the GOAT 2pac Shakur!

  • young tul

    This shit was pointless PAC was the greatest of all time

  • Cas

    This dude is way off. If you don’t know about Hip-Hop then you shouldn’t be writing about the subject plain and simple.

  • GODS CHILD

    I am not sorry when I say the arguments here are weak. When Pac was alive, he was considered a great man, maybe not in the medias eyes, but who you gonna believe? Plus Pac openly admits he is not a dope dealer but he knows plenty. And as far as goin to a school of performing arts, who says a gangster can’t be educated or friends with those that are not gangster. Pac could go to a tea party and it would be a gangster tea party. Every man makes mistakes and has lived in sin. R.I.P. PAC The Realest and the Greatest to do it!

  • Grim Fury

    Who are these people that keep saying Pac wasn’t really that lyrical? Have they even listened to him, or hip hop music period? Do they even know what lyrical is? I seriously don’t get it. 2Pac was one of the best lyricists. Have they heard songs like “If I Die 2 Nite”, “Tradin War Stories”, “If My Homie Calls”, “Krazy”, “Words Of Wisdom”, “Who Do You Believe In”… I could keep going. All of those songs are lyrical for their own reason.

    Also, people seem to forget that Pac was 25 when he died. The shit he was talking about was him in his early years of life. He may have seemed like he was an O.G., but he was young. How many 25 year olds and younger today do you know can spit the shit he was talking about and do it like he did? I bet it’ll take one hand to count. People seriously don’t know what they’re talking about.

  • SuLi-man Possel

    fact if pac was alive case money would be makaveli records all the cats in the game would have all eyes on us.

  • RapisShit

    there will never be such a thing as the G.O.A.T. so we need to stop talking about it. Make music for the world with your heart and soul and move people. That’s what it should all be about. There will never be the G.O.A.T. because people are different which makes their music different and comparing two different people making two different things and trying to decide who’s better is just dumb, because its all opinion. My favorite rapper of all time is AZ and i’ll tell people all day why I think he’s better than Lil’ Wayne, 2pac, Em, and whothefuckever but it doesn’t make it true because a lot of people relate more to the thoughts of those other guys than AZ but I relate more to AZ. So shut the FUCK up and make your dumb fucking music and make your fucking money. Assholes. vg

  • کا بچہ خدا

    That’s the biggest bullshit i’ve ever seen!!!!!!!OMG!

  • Kennedy Williamson

    Biggie, Jay Z and many other east coast rappers have a much softer past than Tupac. Hahahaha! This post makes me sick, definitely claims that an east coast pole jocker would make. Pac never claimed to be a thug as in a a heartless gangster, he meant as in becoming something with nothing. His friends in Brooklyn would give him food and clothes and that’s why he’s so caring towards the people and fighting the wicked government system along with the illuminati east coast sell outs! Pac is lyrical genius, but you just can’t understand cause your probably use to hearing all the bustaz rapping with the same style

  • Kennedy Williamson

    He got put into the university he went to through being great friends with a professor there, they cover all of this in that Big and Pac documentary. A thug isn’t always the kook ass image that fake nigga’s created, he’s got way more heart and mind then any rapper will ever have and if you disagree, you lack knowledge in rap completely. Study Pac’s lyrics in songs and words in his interviews then you’ll see that his way of rapping is too clever, he rhymes all the time! Just not in every track because like his homies have said, that’s not Pac’s style to only flow on a track. He always went over board in a perfect way! The media and the illuminati turned him more into a hood thug cause they brought his bad side out

  • computablu

    Its not hating yet 2Pac is the one artist you choose to single out. Fuck the money spending subs. Its the people of the hoods and ghettos who love and respect Makaveli. So continue to hate. Tupac has been immortalized through his work and his fans. #O4L

  • Sergio Dominguez

    You’re just wrong if pac is not the Best who is? no one can even compare to him he was Just unique. Jay z? Jadakiss? Wayne? No brain no heart for Rap. Pac was the real Deal. Why do you think he is dead? The world cant handle a Brain like Tupac He was just Genius he try to make a movement with his music not rappin about non senses probably you think Drake, Jayz or lil wayne are the GOAT. But you re just WRONG

  • Gabe

    First I respect what was said in this article but when u talk about how real PAC was PAC was real just because he went to Baltimore school for arts and cause he knew Jada pinkett he wasn’t real what u don’t know about PAC he was living in a apartment with a bed on the floor and he only had one pair of pants and when PAC said thuglife he meant the underdog that comes out on top his is a thug and is living the thuglife now that’s real shit

  • Shannon Pollard

    You really need to do your research asshole, i didn’t even get passed he wasn’t a thug yet portrayed himself as one. ANY LOYAL TUPAC FAN KNOWS THAT T.H.U.G. L.I.F.E stands for The Hate You Give Little Infants Fuck Everyone. What makes Pac great and keeps him great is the fact that he wrote about issues normal people dealt with medioc my ass! No one will ever compare to him or Biggie, the only ones that come close are Nas, eminem, and t.i., why? Because they’re storytellers they’re not just talkin about fast cars bitches money and weed. So what Pac attended a school for gifted people, you mad because he possessed more talent in his fingernail than you ever will? To This day he has sold more albums than Jay Wayne abs drake combined. So where’s the mediocrity in that? Don’t worry I’ll be waiting for the answer

  • 3327

    This guy should not be writing columns saying stupid shit like 2 PAC NEVER changed his flow. LOL the only thing that’s never gonna happen is this idiot making a valid point. Fire this teenage girl you got writing for you shmucks!

  • Trilla George

    Pac Is THEE Goat Period.

  • DeYos Beats
  • domdiablo

    This IS disrespectful. But.. Did you just compared Pac to Lil B or nah?

  • Damien Bartee

    Gayest article Of All Times – Pac was a fucking master of verbiage compared to the drivel that spews from the lips of some of these modern suburban wannabe thugs. No one since has turned a phrase as powerfully descriptive as what pac could. To use his own words he kept it as it ‘real as penitentiary steel’ and nothing is any more real than those bars in lockup. raging wanna be pussies and a pussy ass article

  • FrostyC

    lmao. Yeah whatever we can have this discussion when someone produces a better body of work in Rap. No one touches the quality nor the quantity of 2Pac’s work.

  • Garnet

    Your a big ucking hater dude. Especially using Hail Mary wow. Hail Mary is great but not the best there is better. Plus ballet your arbitrary is weak hater. 2pac the best. And you k ow everybody knows it that’s why they hte PAC. They don’t talk about him because he is real and he is a threat bitch. Huge fan. And I’m not a killer or a drug addict you bitch. I actually got a great life and live wealthy and have a family you eminem dick sucker.

  • KILLUMINATI310

    U FUNNY U REALLY GONA SAY HE WOULDNT SALE RECORDS??? U SAID IT URSELF, HE MADE HISTORY IN ALBUM SALES, AND U SAY HE WOULDNT SALE RECORDS IF HE WAS ALIVE..UR COMPLETELY WRONG ON THAT PART AND LOTS DONT CONSIDER HIM THE G.O.A.T MANY CONSIDER HIM…”KEYWORD” ONE OF THE G.O.A.T